Before any more discussion is devoted to any thread, or post, you people might want to learn something:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32221


The article is in printer-friendly format; just so you can print it out and hand it to your wayward government teacher, the one who keeps telling students this is a "democracy."

That would be my school district. Just to clarify.

Salaam

Thats an interesting article, and I must say I agree with it. Despite our disagreements in the past.

Look at what direct democracy has done to Washington, my state. Tim Eymens intiatives are always passed, but they're destroying funding for education, pollution control, and the roads. My district, already tiny and underfunded stands to lose $15,000 next year thanks to one of his intiatives. Thanks for the read.

Salaam

What about Cuba?

"Start proving your statements. You're from China, so obviously your answers will be construed to something like this."
well isnt it the same?
you are from the US and your answers all turned out to be like that.everyone knows socialism and capitalism are against each other after all.western media and governments boycott communism/socialism,still,both are doing the same thing.

"What the heck? Oh, so communism is just somehow real cool then? You're so brainwashed Cathay. I feel sorry for you having to live in a country like that. Sadly, many of those ideas has infiltrated the American schools, hence this forum."
communism has never been achieved before,it's true that living under this system you can't do anything you want,the first rule is "when you are having your rights,you can not disturb others from having their rights".it means whatever you do,the collectivity comes first.but what's wrong with that?it's another standard you can't accept,you can't just point it out and prove communism is evil with it.communism is equally another individual,it shouldn't be judged by the capitalistic criterion.it's 20 century.
when you talk about communism in china you are taking us as the communists in the 60th.you may ask someone who actually lives here,nobody cares what communism actually is.it's not like we are all forced to believe in communism and never disagree with the communistic governments.once china opened the door,it can't be as easy to brainwash as 40 years ago.it's 20 century.
well i could go anywhere if i wanted.my cousins were born in the US,they are technically americans but they are going to study in hongkong and stay in the mainland.it's not because they are brainwashed whatsoever.china isnt north korea,kids dont take politics and the stuff in the politics text-books serious.we dont stand against capitalism and scream "capitalism is so evil".it's 20 century

there's no such thing as a system is evil.in WW2 the only japanese who tried to stop their governments from invading china were communists,the communists first sent troops to spain against nazi,the doctor who exposed SARS in china is a communist.communists were killed by capitalistic governments,too.whoa how evil...

another sad thing for you joey.
if you insist the US is going socialistic,in this way it totally fits Marxism.(when the economy is developed,capitalism will be not enough to handle the economy,it naturally turns into socialism).

If I use your line of logic, then capatilism is a type of government too... I don't think so.

Sorry, I had just discussed the economy of Switzerland before reading your post.

BUT...

You're such an expert, let me tell ya.

Note: "Communism isn't a form of government... it's a type of economy." (that is YOUR quote)

If Communism is "total government control" and the government controls the economy, then hence, communism IS a form of government - do you not see this?

Castro's Cuba does not have a capitalistic ECONOMY - why? Because the Communists CONTROL it, therefore making it a FORM of government. If something is not governed, it is NOT a form of government, no?

If something IS controlled by the government, that, in effect, is a form of GOVERNMENT.



And this is the biggest misconception of them all, and you regurgitate it like it's fact:

"Therefore what they pay is returned in the form of free medical attention, free medicine, and free education."

Listen, Mr. Economist, if Paul has to pay for Peter to go use a hospital, THAT'S NOT FREE! "Free education?" If someone else has to pay - with their high taxes - for some kid going to school, that is NOT free education.

It get so confusing debating this, because real economics is not taught in school; I mean, how can you effectively teach capitalism in school systems that are funded by the socialistic redistribution of wealth? That's not free education.

First of all, I was talking about Sweden, not Switzerland. They're 2 different countries.
Second, communism isa type of economy! What I was talking about was the communist view of how the economy should be run. Communism= total government control. Laisse-faire= no government control. Obviously you need to look up the definitions of socialism and communism in the dictionary. If you do, you'll find that one is a form of government while the other is a form of economy. They are not the same. Another thing, the Swedes are some of the most affluent people in europe, and in exchange for high taxes they don't have to pay for medical related expenses or educational expenses because the government pays for them in taxes. Therefore what they pay is returned in the form of free medical attention, free medicine, and free education.

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And capitalistic governments used to oppress the poor.As if anyone was better.....

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Start proving your statements. You're from China, so obviously your answers will be construed to something like this.

"...so 20 century?"

What the heck? Oh, so communism is just somehow real cool then? You're so brainwashed Cathay. I feel sorry for you having to live in a country like that. Sadly, many of those ideas has infiltrated the American schools, hence this forum.

quote:

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Communism isn't a form of government... it's a type of economy.

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Well, wait...

quote:

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Communist nations believe that the economy should be controlled and regulated completely by the government

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So, then Communism IS a form of government; if the government controls the means of production, distribution, etc. then it IS a form of government.

Anyone hear of Laissez-faire economics? Pardon my misspelling, but it means "hands off!" You don't mix your economic well-being with a government's good intention(s).

What's that saying? Oh, the road paved with good intentions always leads to hell.

Yes, well, look at America - not FULLY socialist, but it's getting there gradually.


And the thing about Switzerland; I don't see how they can have a 10 percent Socialist government if uh, only 10 percent is under government control. Some parts or sectors might be capitalistic, given the wealth of the nation (socialist countries don't have a high number of affluent folks, given the fact all of their money is TAXED into oblivion), but they have a problem with High, High taxes.

quote:

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A socialist nation believes in redistributing the wealth between the upper and lower classes in society through instruments like taxation.

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Exactly.

First, I'd like to point out the fact that there isn't a single true democracy on earth today. The first and only pure democracy was athens where the population was small enough that a direct democracy was practical. But, the U.S. is a democracy. It's a representative democracy. Second, Communism isn't a form of government... it's a type of economy. This is a common misconception. The Soviet Union had a Socialist form of government with a communist economy. But socialism and communism don't go hand-in-hand. Sweden, for example, is a nation with a socialist government and a free market economy. 90% of the Swedish economy is small business and the other 10% is under government control. Utilities and Mass Transportation make up most of the 10%. And the Swedes have the same rights and priveleges that we enjoy here in america. A socialist nation believes in redistributing the wealth between the upper and lower classes in society through instruments like taxation. Communist nations believe that the economy should be controlled and regulated completely by the government in order to close the gap between rich and poor.

Joey:"Are you 100 percent sure you have any idea whatsoever what Communism means?"Did you know the American embassy do not accept Communists?It's a trend to hate Communism without knowing why.

By the way,do you remember Joe McCarthy?

"You fool! Communism gets its "bad rap" because the People are FORCED into it! "
Whoever takes control of the country forces the people into the system.

"They have no RIGHTS. They have no LIBERTY. They have no FREEDOMS."
well I dont have much to say.Capitalism insists individual and Communism insists collectivity.
Holding on to the point that Communists have no rights is so 20 century.
You havent even been to the Communistic countries.You should really think before you use the words such as "NO" especially in caps lock~
You have more rights and freedom if you open up,in the reality,exoteric countries give the people more freedom,Communism/Capitalism doesnt effect it as much as you guess.

"Of course the leaders of a Communist government are evil - Communism IS evil; it goes against ANYTHING and EVERYTHING having to do with the individual."
Please?Who are you to judge evil and justified?Communistic governments as I know,the Chinese governments,used to oppress "capitalists"(anyone who was rich).And capitalistic governments used to oppress the poor.As if anyone was better.....

Disturbed:Very true.

Communism gets its bad reputation from countries such as China and the former Soviet Union. Both started out as trying to be a Marxist society, but Lenin made some changes to the Marxist theory, saying that the workers had to be provoked into a revolution, instead of it naturally happening.

The goal of Marxism was to create a state where no government was needed. The government would set up the society, and phase itslef out. Instead, Stalin set up a totalitarian society, under the Marxist theory.

Marxism works in theory, and has worked in small, private communes. But to branch it out to a large nation would be disasterous. Marx did not take into account negotiations between the workers and the managers; individual skills; motovation (current problem in China*); etc. But in a small, localized setting, it can work.

*China is having problems with motovating her workers. "Why should I work as hard as her, when we'll recieve the same pay?" A solution is to let the workers keep some of the excess products they make (a Capitalist solution ).

As for "Black-Listing" what could be better than sitting in front of Congress with a dimwit from Wisconsin accusing you of being a Communist? Not to mention the FBI having your entire life history on file, because you MIGHT be a communist or be a potential risk?

Joey: You're so uneducated and ignorant about the Constitution and our rights. I certainly hope you don't live in America.

"Instead, as Franklin points out, they created a republic – one with checks and balances built in, with a Constitution, with a federal government of limited power and scope, a system in which the individual's unalienable rights were recognized and protected, a representative form of government, not one based on direct vote of the populace."

What a good arguement, its not like the executive branch, the judicial branch, and the legislative branch are a form of checks and balance. Oh wait a minute, they are. It is not like there is a system for checks and balances in each branch. Oh wait a minute, there is. It is not like this country has a constitution that has been the basis for all lawmaking for over 200 years.
Oh wait a minute, we do. Its not like our government can not just do whatever they want. Oh wait a minute, they can't. It is not like our government has not recognized and protected our unallienable rights. Oh wait a minute, they do. Its not like our government is a representative for of government where we elect judges, senators and the president, oh wait a minute we do. It not like our country ignores the direct vote of the people by forming something like the electorial college, oh wait a minute they do.

The link provided was ridiculous and insulting to the intelligence of everyone on this site.

why do you have to be so rude JoeyDauben?

Poemster, will I have to start "black-listing" you?

You're so uneducated and ignorant, and clearly it shows with your pro-Communist rant.

I hope you don't live in America.

Communism is actually a logical theory; well, at least Karl Marx's view of it. Marx's theory was that the proletariat (working class/all the people/etc) would overthrow the bourgeoisie (the middle class, which held a decent amount of power). People would have control over society, instead of the government, but there are few, or no, personal liberties, which is a disadvantage.

PS. I'm not calling anyone arrogant or anything like that. I don't know who is or who isn't arrogant or anything like that. I don't want to choose and put people in tivial groups of who is this and who is that. This is only what I observed from other people.

Bye N have a nice day

I rather follow my heart of stone instead of the close-minded government. (Not calling you people close-minded, I'm calling the government close-minded)

Hey, if what I'm doing is a mistake then I'm willing to take it.

I'm not going to be part of the government's inconsequential congregations or as they say, "fellowship".

That's just creates controversy and belligerence for everyone and everything.

When people finally tolerate and could sustain each other's differences but also have disagreements but act like mature adults about it then MAYBE, I will be part of this.

However, right now I see there's more people out there who aren't exactly like that and the cause of that is because those people are in this certain kind of group or this certain kind of sect and believe this certain kind of thing and they tend to forget that there's other things out there and if you believe in this certain thing that doesn't mean it's the ONLY right thing but it doesn't mean it's the wrong thing neither.

When people lay down their arrogance and they could come down to earth again then I will welcome them back home.

We all need to grow up!!!!!!!!!!! We meaning me too so I'm including myself in all this too.

I really do luv you guys though

Bye N Have a nice day

To me, IMO, Capitalism is based on the love of money. People do things not just because it is in their best interests or the best interests of the people that make up their communities, but because there is a the opportunity to make a capital gain from it. People are motivated by the love of money.

The bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil. Therefore by applying the concepts of Capitalism to the bible, I am able to establish that: Capitalism is evil and any nation whose economic policys are based on Capitalism, is reflective of that evil.

Communism in its purest form is about working in a community to provide for the needs of the people. The reason why it hasnt worked without force is that the evils of mankind are hard to conquer. Pure Communism means that if there is one person in unavoidable poverty, then the entire community will be in poverty. There is no rich and no poor. Wealth is distributed equally. Business is designed to provide for the NEEDS of the people, not to satisfy the GREED of shareholders and CEO's.

The most successful Communist state is CUBA. Dispite economic sanctions by the UN it has the lowerst illiteracy rate in the world. More doctors and teachers per head of capita than any country in the world. Infant mortality is 1 in 1000 [compared to the USA, that is excellent]. Unlike USA, the elderly dont die of starvation or freeze to death.

Alligations that people are trying to escape on poorly built rafts is true, but the reason is doctored by the mass media of the USA. The reason why exhile is such is because there are border restrictions between Cuba and USA. You cant expect everyone to like Cuba, so those that want to leave have no other choice than to construct makeshift rafts and hightail it accross the ocean.

Fidel Castro is a man I have alot of respect for. But he, like most politicans is corrupt. Taking an unequal share of the wealth, defeating the purpose of Communism.

So, just like christianity, the biggest fault of communism is humanity.

Comrade Brendon Ward