i think that we shouldn't burn the flag because its what we stand for thats goin up in smoke some people may not agree with me but i stand up for what i believe is right i mean what ur suppose to do is cut the stars off then burn it but i just think thats right email and tell me what u think or if u agree. rebelchick91@charter.netloveandlife stands for all
I don't think it's right. If you hate America that much, then get the hell out. Have fun living in some crappy third world country. Ungrateful as-holes. In a lot of countries you'd be killed for burning the flag. I hate people who take America for granted
well i dont actually agree that we're 'about the freest country in the world' or watever i kno, we're America, we're supposed 2 b able 2 do wateva we want, but there r so many things so many people want or dont want that happen/dont happen anywayz . There were millions of people who protested against the war, but it happened anyways, so arent those people not actually free to see that what they are against doesnt happen?
Lol, I don't know whether to take that as a compliment or not, so I will take it as a compliment. Thank you. ^__^
I see where you're coming from on the holy book stuff, because I feel basically the same as you. I was just saying that because someone could see it that way.
[I'm not actively religious either, and like you, I feel people have the right to any religion they want (provided it doesn't infringe on the rights of other people).]
Well, what the flag stands for is where we differ. You feel that burning it is burning what America stands for. I feel that burning it is burning what America is, or just burning a piece of colored cloth. I probably won't ever burn a flag, but it is a kind of peaceful protest. I'd rather have someone burn my country's flag and talk about why they did it instead of attacking us, if you know what I mean.
Thank God we've got this cleared up. I hate arguing. Debating is fun though. ^__^
now that we've put our differences aside, i'd like to say you are very intelligent for a 16 year old.
i'll answer the questions.
I believe that if you're a culturally accepting individual, than you can accept something as holy even if you don't neccesarily agree with it's fundamental meaning.
Let me first state that I believe the word "holy" extends it's meaning beyond absolute religion. I believe John F. Kennedy was a holy man, because he did amazing things and acted an accordance with a divine higher power. But politically, I don't agree with much of his base social theories. (Let's not argue about that though...you have your opinions, i have mine)
Even in terms of religion...I am, as I have stated, not religiously active and don't believe much of what is presented in the bible. However...being a religiously SENSITIVE person, I understand that religion is your right. I may not agree with religion period, but I believe, as is stated in the constitution, in freedom to practice religion. So I would argue that the bible is holy to me because it is holy to other individuals.
Next, why I think it's immoral to burn the flag.
Well, like most others who agree with me, I feel that burning the american flag on US soil is sort of a contradiction between the right you have to do that and what you're demonstrating against.
I do agree with you that most people burn the flag to protest issues. However this throws another wrench into the situation.
When someone burns the flag, they may be doing it to protest an issue, however America doesn't stand for issues. America doesn't stand for abortion. America doesn't stand for affirmative action. America stands for the right you have to make those issues policy.
I'll admit; this country isn't perfect, but I'm a patriotic American and think that America comes damn close. I think we could all agree that America is the freeist country ever to exist on the face of the earth.
Lol, I find it funny that you think I'm the one twisting words. I don't need "ethical debate" classes. I know how to separate facts from opinions and I don't attack unless the opposition is too stupid to even consider looking at the other side of the argument.
You did not retract your comment from what I read, and I read all of your posts twice. Please show me where it is.
I don't understand how anyone could believe that a book is "holy" and believe that it is "fundamentally wrong." It seems a bit hypocritical to me; can you explain it?
So, could you please get back on topic and tell me WHY flag burning is immoral?
quote:I'm telling you that you are wrong about the number of Christians there are in the world.
I told you I retracted my comments and should have said that in the us and other judeo-christian civilizations, the bible is the holy book for most people.
I mean do you not see the complete circles your argument has taken? I quoted you, Xia, in my last post running circles around yourself...But that doesn't matter to you does it?
WHY DON'T YOU READ WHAT I SAID?!?
You have warped my original statement...which was this:
quote:Just like the bible to most people isn't just "a book"
You don't have to be christian to consider the bible holy. I consider the Koran holy and think it's teachings are fundamentally wrong.
And You and Dante really need to take some classes on ethical arguing...Dante's constant cursing (not so much here) proves that he isn't a worthy or even respectful opponent. You're distortion of context and words is rediculous.
And I was the one who originally stated that this is an issue of morality and not legality!
quote:the question here isn't about legality...it's about morality.
So your adopting my arguments and trying to somehow turn them against me? I don't understand your philosophy of debating...but I recommend you both take Ethics 101.
This has no longer become an ethical issue to you, Xia. I don't even take Dante seriously anymore because of his malicious posts, but I'm surprised by you...even though, as you have stated and i have noticed, the topic has completely shifted (not because of me, mind you!), you continue running circles around yourself.
I suggest you read over THE ENTIRE thread. and please dont pull a Dante and spew profanities all over the place because your pissed off at me!
*sighs* Let me explain this one more time, conservakid:
I'm telling you that you are wrong about the number of Christians there are in the world. That has absolutely NO relevance to this issue. So stop bringing it up. Yes, you were the one to bring it up:
quote:In the US and other english-speaking countries, where you and I and most others on this board are from, the bible is most people's holy book.
The minute you brought in the other countries you automatically killed your numbers. And don't give me that crap that you meant only the U.S. and other Christian countries. That's getting rid of most of the world's population.
The issue is whether burning a flag is moral or not. It's illegal almost everywhere except in America. That's a given. You didn't tell me anything new. But that's not the issue either.
In my post I said that hopefully burning a flag in other countries will happen soon. What that means that hopefully it'll be legal to burn flags soon. I didn't say they happened now, because I know they get in trouble for it.
Now, let's get back on topic. Is flag burning moral? I think it is. Why? See my previous posts for reasons.
Nicoley - Just people in general about burning the flag. ^__^
however, as i've stated now 3 times, this issue doesn't even effect most of the other non judeo-christian countries. WHY? Because, like I said, flag burning is a crime and considered morally wrong there. NICE TRY. --------------------------------------------------
quote:Sure, you could say it has nothing to do with other countries, but hopefully it will in the future.
and in the same post....
quote:This is a global issue, not only an American issue.
need i say more?
We're goin round in circles, circles. We're goin round in circles, circles.
I did read your post, but obviously you didn't read mine:
[QUOTE]Since I'm looking at this as a global thing (since it IS in the "Global Community" section)...[QUOTE]
This is a global issue, not only an American issue.
What I was talking about there was whether or not the Bible is a holy book to the "majority" of the world, which it isn't. You cannot go around saying that Christians are the "majority" of the people in the world, because, frankly, they're not.
Now, the REAL issue presented in this thread is whether or not flag burning is moral. Sure, you could say it has nothing to do with other countries, but hopefully it will in the future. And yes, you could say that they would be killed for doing so, but doesn't that mean they HAVE burned a flag?
The question is not about how many Christians there are in the world, because we know that already. The question is whether or not flag burning is moral, and I'm assuming you're against it?
You are confusing two different topics together. They may be linked, but they are not the same topics.
Try that this issue doesn't even apply to people in those countries! Most muslim countries and countries in the far east would punish you for burning their flag! They don't have freedom of speech!
Look at saddam hussein and what WAS his regime of terror. If you burned a picture of saddam..... well, you wouldn't be around to do it again!
And I have a question...why don't you bother to read what I say?
like i said before-
quote:Don't give me crap that you meant the rest of the world...most other countries apart from western countries, would punish you for burning the flag or speaking out against your government.
all i have to say is- We're goin round in circles, circles We're goin round in circles, circles
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