War is not one bit heroic. It is the memory of hundreds, thousands dying in the minds of many and most men live with it doing nothing about it, and this is when history gets a chance to repeat itself. I sometimes wonder why countries give up life just for a piece of land made up of sand, soil and almost the same trees, grass or whatever. Is this what power and patriotism is all about? Why cannot this whole world let man live, the life he is born to live and not the induced battle and blood life he is doomed to live? I mean history surely shows us that the humans have never been free of wars from the crusades to the Second World War and coming to the most recent Iraq war. Can't man for once be less greedy, more satisfied, less selfish and more sensitive. I mean there are whole universities and museums dedicated to showcase history. Then why does man blind his brain from violence. Does not he know that the definition of war is still the same after centuries but the degree of bloodshed has just increased. Its like they say that man uses his best to do his worst. I mean the irony is the fact that Americans made the taliban and destroyed them too. The whole thing just fails to make any sense at all. Today politics is all about hatred, money making, and all other wrong things that go with it. Its just amazing how a note of money can mean everything to human beings in general. It's just in the brain and this virus is spreading the world over not by computers but by human behavior and attitude. Does power mean the right to do anything? The right to kill an innocent passerby going about the most mundane of his daily activities? To blow up everything a country worked for or to blow up a common dream which goes much deeper than factories and infrastructure but which runs deep in ones unshatterable brain?
Does America or any other country have such a right? Isn't life the same for anyone? Does color, race and geography change this? Does it have the right to doom a country to induced misery?
No, its just ridiculous. But then one would say stuff about Saddam that’s equally convincing but does a country of such a huge population pay for the mistake of one vindictive mind? Does a small boy become a orphan just for the unproven whims and fancies of Saddam Hussein? Does a child lose his/her hands and legs just because America is searching for missiles or whatever that Saddam is hiding. Is this game of hide and seek worth it anymore for anyone? Does one man, George W Bush have the right to change the destines of so many people all over the world?
In the end, all I hope is for one most impossible thing I this world and that's peace. I hope above all that the politicians the world over , try their best to not make history repeat itself more than once, and realize that war is just an expansion and outcome of greed.

Americanization? sharing cultures is bad? we driving Toytas and Hondas over here. does that mean we are getting "Japanized"?

If we had a land invasion, depending on what the attackers intentions were, I'd fight back.

If it was, we are attacking you to show you we are sick of your americanization of the world, and once where done dissarming you we will leave you alone. Then I wouldnt mind.

But if its we are attacking to take your land and inslave you all. Id fight back. basically what we do to everyone else.

A combination of cowardice and the right circumstances= Bravery+ (more cowardly cowardice x better circumstances)= Hero
War is war and it will continue so really I'm ready to fight and I'll follow orders but you need to relize all the war heros are generaly given their rewards after death

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gosh red..too bad u werent on americas secret service or some other agency..that wud surele mean another half of the world bombed in no time......

not really and i wish that you would stop spewing this type of nonsense. i support the lebanese protest and i have no desire to bomb lebanon. i have no desire to bom anywhere except for the iranian nuclear facilities, which i might add, israel has given approval to do so, the NK facilites, which clinton gave to them, and i'd "pulverise the Eiffel Towers" as Billy Joe so lovingly puts it.

ummm... They were burning American flags at the student democracy demonstrations in Iran... They want regime change but they don't want us involved with it, they don't want us stationing troops in their country or replacing their oil companies with ours. As for the Bush/Cheney Halliburton... Look for a thread in the near future.

wow..first off this thread was from 2003....

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i believe and i have been sayng for the past 7 months tht saddam's weapons are in Bekaa Valley and this story has been proven true and does not contradict with any news at all

gosh red..too bad u werent on americas secret service or some other agency..that wud surele mean another half of the world bombed in no time......

satellite pictures of weapons lleaving the al-musayyib weapons plants in 35 ton cargo trucks and then crossing the syrian border.
i believe and i have been sayng for the past 7 months tht saddam's weapons are in Bekaa Valley and this story has been proven true and does not contradict with any news at all.
why do you think that the projected syrian pullback is to the Bekaa Valley? because that is where their weapons are. thos weapons are there, you mark my words. they will be discovered. when they are i will never let any of you liberals for get it.

"Before the issue of WMD's in Iraq came up, how many of you gave a damn about Iraqis being oppressed? "

obviously bush did. as many liberals can joyously point out to you, bush was planning to go into iraq before 911. but they seem to think that that was a bad thing.

"How many of you make personal sacrifices in your life to help people in other countries."

just yesterday me and a group of friends raised money for tsunami victims.

" I'm willing to bet not many of you."

is this an excuse not to try and help people?

" While you wake up every day and have breakfast, take a shower, slip into some nice clothes and jump into your car that your parents got you, people in other countries wake up hungry and sick and with people like Saddam in charge. Some of them don't have school as an option and some women cannot show their face or leave the house for fear of being beaten or worse."

why do you think bush went in there? sure wmds was a reason and a legitimate one. but it was also beccause totalitarian regimes are the main suopporters of terrorism. if you take their money away, the terrorists are hardly a legitimate threat.

"Despite the war in Iraq and the war on "terrorism" this dictatorship and subpar lifestyle continues in many other countries."

which is why bush is going around to European countreis asking them for support. why are you not complaining at toher countries. look around the world today. which country is furthering the cause of democracy? which country provides the most financial aid in humanitarian causes? which country is crriticized for all of this? the answer is our beloved US of A.

"The only way we could stop this from happening would be to take over the world and force our democratic ideals on them right?"

apparently wwe arent forcing democracy on the iraqis if millions of people went out and voted. the same goes for afghanistan. i thought the case in lebanon would have been enough to answetr that question. or the case in Egypt. PEOPLE WANT DEMOCRACY. THEY WANT FREEDOM. why do you think communism doesnt work? becuase it tries to force people into this little mold. people dont want to be crammed into a little mold. they want personal, unalienable rights.

" What about here in the USA? Whom are we to go fixing other countries when we have an estimated 30,000 or more homeless people on our own soil and more people in prison than any other country in the world, not to mention the largest budget deficit in history."

which over teh next four years bush plans to cut in half. we do have problems here at home but there are much more pressing matters elsewhere. we arent going to end poverty here. not unless people work for a change. have you relaized that the majority of homeless people are homeless because they are too lazzy to work? i know im going to be basically crucified for that one but its the truth. if you are mentally not right, or have a physical disability, thats one thing. but when i walked down the streets of DC, i see fully-capable-of-working people. its not that i dont care about hiomeless, its not that i wish them to hell, its not that i thin k that i am better than them,. thats not it at all. if i was too lazy to work, id probably be on the streets begging too. but i know that with the a lot of hardwork, and with the help of God, i will be able to become what God wants me to be. but that requires perseverance and motivation on my part.

"The simple fact is that the majority of the world's wealth is concentrated within the minority here in the USA and the EU, not the with the common people but with the uncommon people, the Martha Stewarts and the Bill Gates. What does one person need with 100 million dollars?"

IT IS THEIR MONEY. THEY WORKED HARD FOR IT. THEY HD WORK ETHIC. DO YO THINK THEY PULLED THAT MONEY OUT OF THEir MONEY OUT OF NOWHERE?

Abe Lincoln is the best example of this. he was nothing and had no money when he was young. BUt he worked hard and had alot of failures. but that didnt stop him. he worked hard and soon was on the road to be the historians' top pick for best president.

" 2 of those can be cured simply by throwing money at them, so why don't we do that instead of sending bullets?"

we did try that except instead of money we gave them somthing much more valuable. we gave them food. but saddam scammed that and too that money and used it for "other purposes" mainly in his weaponry budget.

"Because in all honesty we don't care and we don't want to make that sacrifice. We don't care until something affects us, like september 11th or rising gas prices or a bad economy."

i forgot who wrote this but woever did hasnt looked at the numbers lately. open an economic journal and see how well this economy is doing. we dont care?! we are expending American blood for their sakes! the greatest gift of all is life!

"War is always good for the economy of the side that wins it, especially in Iraq for companies like Halliburton (funny how bush and cheney both have ties to them). "

maybe some proof for the whole halliburton thing.


"Our president has simply made a decision that taking out the current middle east is good for our country, and he is probably right. The only problem is fooling the rest of the world and his own citizens into believing that what he is doing is right. "


he is doing right. how is he he not? he gave hope and stretgh to the young men and women of iran who want a regime change. they now have the knowledge that America is behind them in their freedom struggle. we gave hope and renewal to the lebanese in their fight for freeedom and the removal of syria. saudi arabia is now having municipal elections. people are pushing for freer elections in egypt. this is not the acts of a man who cares nothing for the middle east or a man that "just went int here for oil" these are the actions of a visionary; a man who knew that if we sow the seeds of democracy, they will grow and they will shine as a testament to the rest of the cold, totalrian neghbors saying, "we stand for freedom. our voices will be heard and you will not silence them."

"What better guise to hide under than defending human rights and spreading democracy.
Defending human rights? Isn't this the same president that ruled that America shouldn't be held liable for geneva war rules and trials? Isn't this the president whom was governor of texas, a death penalty state?
Stop believing everything you read and open up your mind, this is imperialism, plain and simple"

right becuase anyone who is on the side of bush is a bigoted, close minded, homophobic, fundamentalist, Bible-thumping neocon who feeds on bush's propaganda.
get a grip. just because we dont have the same beliefs as you doesnt mean we are close minded. you are the one who is being clse minded by implying that all of us who arent of the same opinion as you are not open minded.
yes defending human rights. you truily must be blind if you think that bush isnt doing such things. sasddam hussien killed 100,000 people. for no reason. where were all of the human rights activists then? where were all the feminists when women were raped and beaten? THERE SILENCE WAS DEAFENEING. THEY HAVE NO REAL CARE FOR WOMEN RIGHT OR HUMAN RIGHTS. ITS ALL POLITICAL. IT IS TRULY AND UNDENIABLY SICKENING.

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a rumor huh? how was it a rumor?

we have no pictoral or tangible evidence of wmd's besides pictures of "Plants"

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Yet we get a rumor of WMDs in Iraq and immediately we're bombing the bejeezus out of Iraq. Funny.

a rumor huh? how was it a rumor?

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Red, I agree that Saddam was an evil dictator. Something needed to be done in Iraq. However, the US needed to try all possible options before resorting to war.

i agree before war is started, all other non violent ways should be tried in order to end the threat. but how did we not try all other solutions? we spent twelve years negotiating with him, we tried economic sanctions but that didnt work because 1, he's in control of the single largest place of oil and 2 because he was scamming the oil-for-food program.
war was the only other option.

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and the people whom live on and suffer the grief of losing a loved one.

Agreed.

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Wars never affected anyone except the people who die."

and the people whom live on and suffer the grief of losing a loved one.

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Before the issue of WMD's in Iraq came up, how many of you gave a damn about Iraqis being oppressed?

Good question.

Anyways...this is an interesting quote

"Wars never affected anyone except the people who die."

All of you that use the argument that we as Americans are helping other countries by killing evil dictators, etc. etc. blah blah, I think you are being hypocrits. I hate to throw out that word but the reason I feel that way is because I think you have been deceived.
Before the issue of WMD's in Iraq came up, how many of you gave a damn about Iraqis being oppressed? How many of you make personal sacrifices in your life to help people in other countries. I'm willing to bet not many of you. While you wake up every day and have breakfast, take a shower, slip into some nice clothes and jump into your car that your parents got you, people in other countries wake up hungry and sick and with people like Saddam in charge. Some of them don't have school as an option and some women cannot show their face or leave the house for fear of being beaten or worse.
Despite the war in Iraq and the war on "terrorism" this dictatorship and subpar lifestyle continues in many other countries. The only way we could stop this from happening would be to take over the world and force our democratic ideals on them right? What about here in the USA? Whom are we to go fixing other countries when we have an estimated 30,000 or more homeless people on our own soil and more people in prison than any other country in the world, not to mention the largest budget deficit in history.
The simple fact is that the majority of the world's wealth is concentrated within the minority here in the USA and the EU, not the with the common people but with the uncommon people, the Martha Stewarts and the Bill Gates. What does one person need with 100 million dollars? The reason a dictator can control people is because of ignorance, fear, and poverty. 2 of those can be cured simply by throwing money at them, so why don't we do that instead of sending bullets? Because in all honesty we don't care and we don't want to make that sacrifice. We don't care until something affects us, like september 11th or rising gas prices or a bad economy. War is always good for the economy of the side that wins it, especially in Iraq for companies like Halliburton (funny how bush and cheney both have ties to them).
Our president has simply made a decision that taking out the current middle east is good for our country, and he is probably right. The only problem is fooling the rest of the world and his own citizens into believing that what he is doing is right. What better guise to hide under than defending human rights and spreading democracy.
Defending human rights? Isn't this the same president that ruled that America shouldn't be held liable for geneva war rules and trials? Isn't this the president whom was governor of texas, a death penalty state?
Stop believing everything you read and open up your mind, this is imperialism, plain and simple.

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the defense of freedom the world over.

When did the president of the US appoint himself the defender of the rest of the world? It's their business, let them figure it out themselves.

War is never the best option. Lives can be saved by talking. Negotiation should always come first, followed by war as a last result. Take the First Gulf War. We set a deadline. We had talks. The deadline passed, the talks crumbled, so we went to war. That's how it's supposed to be. Don't argue to me about evil dictators. To many, the president of the US is an evil dictator. He may not rule his people with an iron fist, but he's got the rest of the world by the balls.

And for the Saddam thing which I see a lot of down there:

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Saddam Hussein killed 200,000-400,000 people. That's a lot of people to kill in 24 years

I know this is used slightly out of the context that it was meant for, but that's not a lot for 24 years. Hitler killed millions of Jews in roughtly a five year period. Yet we didn't rush into Europe to get rid of Hitler. We stayed out until Pearl Harbor. Yet we get a rumor of WMDs in Iraq and immediately we're bombing the bejeezus out of Iraq. Funny.

I don't agree with war at all. It may be inevitable. Humans may be naturally bloodthirsty (it's that darned survival instinct). But it's a new millenium (has been for oh, 5 years). Don't you think that after centuries of fighting each other, we could find an easier way to defeat our enemies? Just sue them to death. After all, it works in America.

Red, I agree that Saddam was an evil dictator. Something needed to be done in Iraq. However, the US needed to try all possible options before resorting to war.

Saddam was an evil dictator that was killing his own people. all you liberals wanted to do was sit back and allow him to kill more of his people.
what is wrong with this picture? that you should allow this to go on? it is our duty not as Americans but as fellow human beings fighting for the unified purpose of spreading peace in the middle east and around the world. all libs do is try to impede this progress. you let partisan politics get in the way and blur your vision of what is truly right and wrong. listen to waht you are saying. you damn America for going in and stoping a ruthless dictator who was murdering his own people. your answer to the mass genocide? well its not our problem we should let the iraqis die.
maybe you should go over there and spend a day, just one day in Baghdad and see what conmidiotns they live in. condidtions that were existent before we liberated them. do not be decieved by the Fahrenheit Deception. Iraq was not the beautiful oasis that the marxist portratyed in his "documentary".
what do we see as a result of our actions in afghanistan and iraq? we see people in Egypt pushing for freer electiopns. we see saudi arabia having municpal elections, we see lebanon protesting the syrian occupation, we see young iranians inspired and empowered with the courage and knowledge that they have a friend in America. that we will never back awawy, we will never step aside and allow ruthless dictators to oppress you.
and may i also remind you that i have sufficient eveidence to prove that saddam was a threat and that Putin, Russian leader and arguably the strongest critic of the war, told Bush that Iraq was planning attacks on America.
peace and negotiations are good. we tried them in iraq for 12 years. 12 YEARS! it was obvious after the fourth year that saddam wasnt going to comply.
we are now negotiationg with , Iran, and Syria while the Chinese are suppsoedly talking with NK. Bush is trying the negotiations, whcih puts a stop to the liberal argument that bush just rushed into war.
IF you take out the totalitarian regimes that support terrorism, you take out the terrorists' financial aid. which is crucial if they are to pose any legitimate threat.