I am Turkish and if you ask me about this, I will say you we should not join to E.U. Because we are not ready for this Turkish people really love their hegemony. but when you join to E.U you have to share your hegemony with E.U we could not accept this. Last thing that ı can say is our mentality different from European countries.Because of these reasons we should not join to E.U now, firstly we have to develop our country. Anyway, ı wish we will join to E.U becaues it have got lots of advantages.

well this is slightly off-topic but does reiterate the point that Turkey has always been a part of european affairs, and therefore there is no reason why they should not join the EU.

Also, there is no debate in academic circles, or within the EU to whether Turkey's geography or history should affect their application. Only a narrow-minded idiot would argue this point. But the issues on whether or not they join are on their recent history, the false claims of 'genocide' by the Armenians causing constant problems and the Cyprus issue, also issues such as their human rights stances in relation to justice. This issue is being addressed by the new penal code and will bring Turkey up to a European par once it is completed. However new claims stating the trial of PKK leader Öcalan was tried unfairly are plain ridiculous, and any tensions stirred amongst the PKK loyalists as a result of European calls for a retrial are crimminal at best and the European human rights commission should be ashamed of themselves. Pluralism and Solidarism don't go together and Europe should be ready to accept Turkeys morals. It is humiliating for them to appear to be bending over backwards for EU integration, they need to draw a line, that line is definitly going to be the Öcalan, Cyprus and the Armenian problems.

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Originally posted by riskbreaker86:
I was actually refering to Mehmet IIs conquest of constantinople in 1453, which signalled the end of the East Roman, or 'Byzantine' empire.

I know what you were refering to, but it is a long and complicated story. The Eastern Empire had been on the brink of collapse since it was founded, but the Latin Empire signaled the end of the Byzantines as a factor in politics, other than as an object of conquest.

I was actually refering to Mehmet IIs conquest of constantinople in 1453, which signalled the end of the East Roman, or 'Byzantine' empire.

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Originally posted by riskbreaker86:
I actually prefer the analogy of Brussels as the new Byzantium, situated to the East of the old roman empire, perhaps Europe can become the new east roman empire, but we all know what happened to it.....Turks knocked it down.

the catholics knocked it down. ::the Latin Empire::

I actually prefer the analogy of Brussels as the new Byzantium, situated to the East of the old roman empire, perhaps Europe can become the new east roman empire, but we all know what happened to it.....Turks knocked it down.

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::looks around.:: That is probably true. Old Rome fell, and a New Rome rose. Istambul is heir to the Roman tradition (indirectly) more than any other civilization on the planet.

ehhhhhhh. Shaaaky.

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of course we can't expect many Americans to apprieciete the history of Turkey within Europe to realise it is and always has been an integral part of European history, and should be a part of its future.

::looks around.:: That is probably true. Old Rome fell, and a New Rome rose. Istambul is heir to the Roman tradition (indirectly) more than any other civilization on the planet.

what kind of argument is that ironman? pathetic thats what it is. of course we can't expect many Americans to apprieciete the history of Turkey within Europe to realise it is and always has been an integral part of European history, and should be a part of its future.

turkey is in the middle east more than europe and its shouldnt be allowed in the E.U.

There are many reasons why explansions of the E.U. wouldn't work. The European Union survives so well because because it is just a select group of countries who can battle out conflicts easily because they aren't so drastic than the big scale conflicts of the U.N. Conflicts in the U.S. are not so easily understood by the people of India for example. There are large scale differences.

Turkey would be the poorest country ever admitted if it was admitted and there are so many cultural differences as a Muslim country bordering the Middle East.

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Under developed countries get the Euro, economy boosts, poverty ends, new world order...etc

What if the value of the Euro goes down with these underdeveloped countries? The Euro fails than all of Europe fails. Europe fails than the entire world fails. That or touring Europe will become really cheap. Take your pick.

Turkey has a vast history regarding Europe, the Turks knocked on the gates of Vienna and subject to many Crusades. Their politics was inextricibly tied to that of Europe and the UK fought tirelessly to preserve the Ottoman Empires integrity in the 1854 Crimean War (albiet for our own benefit). But what I am getting at is that it is a European nation, Mustafa Kemal didn't cast out the Greeks and the British and establish a republic in order to have Turkey thrusteted Eastwords, it was aimed at pushing the Republic towards Europe, where it no doubt belongs.
I find the Turks to be very protective of their heritage, this is not linked to their islamic culture, but to the very nature of being a Turk and what that stands for. Europe is diverse and Turkey will add to that diversity (they also have good food, i wouldnt mind getting cheaper imported Baklava!).
However certain things do stand in their way. One is the Cyprus issue, which is creaping further towards a settlement with recent elections there. Another issue is the Armenian accusations of genocide in 1915. Claims which are grossly exhasturated and often one sided, being that George Bush can only read one side of paper at a time it seems that the USA is backing Armenian claims and continues to use the incorrect word of 'genocide'.
I am happy to be from a country which supports Turkeys application to the EU as the country is very dear to me and I believe it needs an opportunity to flourish, not to mention the strategic benefits of having a European ally within the middle east and causacous regions. Turkey should be accepted into the EU at the will of its people, which I believe want the benefits of Europe, and should not fear the loss of their own soverignty.

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Originally posted by berenelen:
Sorry, but the E.U. stands for European Union. Turkey is not Europe as far as I'm concerned so it shouldn't even be a question.

If the E.U. expands beyond Europe, there will definitely be a lot of problems.

Yes but the EU has plans to expand to the middle east, asia, and africa and be called "The Union" as a part of the EU neighborhood plan.

And I also do not think there will be much of a problem. Under developed countries get the Euro, economy boosts, poverty ends, new world order...etc

Constantinople is on the northern sides of the Bosporus, in Europe. The capital is in Europe, why not let it in the Union?

Turkey is part in Europe, part in the Middle East, thus it is considered to be a European nation. Would you consider Russia to be an Asian country? It spans two continents, Asia and Europe. But Russia is generally referred to as European.

So, I believe if Turkey wants to join the EU, go ahead and let them. It's not gonna hurt anyone.

No that really is not the question.How are the Poles for example anymore European then the Turks?EU registration should not be measured on race or religion(which would make the bloc impossible)but on freedom.If Turkey continues to liberalize there economy and improve human rights then they should be allowed enter.Closer to a 50 country EU.Morocco and others should also be considered in the right circumstances.

I can't see why a Turk wouldn't wat entry.Turkey would benefit from subsidies and improved freedom.Whats wrong with that?

Duplicate

Sorry, but the E.U. stands for European Union. Turkey is not Europe as far as I'm concerned so it shouldn't even be a question.

If the E.U. expands beyond Europe, there will definitely be a lot of problems.

the question is: Is turkey actually in europe