The elections in Iraq went surprisingly well. In a few weeks a government should be in place. But what about the US troops? I have no idea when or if we should begin to withdraw. Is it our responsiblity to stay in Iraq for the longterm or should we leave asap? Thoughts...

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are you saying that people without college educations aren't "intelligent" enough to vote?

I am not saying that. People that aren't pro-actively engaged in politics enough to vote on their own are not though. I don't want to go lobby for those people to vote.

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that voting is your duty as an American citizen,

Trying to get apathetic people to vote every four years is not "our duty as americans". Trying to end their apathy during those four years is. If we are successful, then they will vote independently. You are doing it backwards.

What do you mean by "intelligent" are you saying that people without college educations aren't "intelligent" enough to vote?

Not all of us who campaigned for voting this year are backwards. I taught a senior after school class about the issues and educated those able, that voting is your duty as an American citizen, but that you need to be educated about the issues.(I'm only 15 so I couldn't vote) We also had a voting club that taught after school classes to adults. But I frankly disagree with the whole MTV "Rock the Vote" thing. They were trying to make voting a fad and thats just not what it is.

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200 years later, the entire nation is not a backwater farming district with a literacy of 20%. It was a different time. You really should not take such old ideas without chewing

It hasn't changed entirely. So long as the majority of Americans arent college educated I will support pluralism. People still aren't going to sit in on ways and means hearings so Federallist No.10 is still relevent. I suspect you haven't read it north so I will cut you some slack.

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Originally posted by bluedemocrat:
FML, I agree with you 100%. Thomas Jefferson, my personal hero, was in agreement with Hamilton and Madison. He felt that only intelligent people should vote.

200 years later, the entire nation is not a backwater farming district with a literacy of 20%. It was a different time. You really should not take such old ideas without chewing, though I do happen to agree with FML on the issue.

Well, I hope the elections went well. For all we know, a radical Shiite government may have won the election.

FML, I agree with you 100%. Thomas Jefferson, my personal hero, was in agreement with Hamilton and Madison. He felt that only intelligent people should vote.

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Funny how you vote more only when the fate of your country hangs on a balance.

The Higher the turnout the worse the decision. I am also pluralist. I beleive that we shouldn't promote voting. If you are smart enough to be interested in the issues than you should vote. I don't think we should keep people from voting, that would be crazy. People who support voting are doing it backwards. My goal is an edjucatied votership. Instead of telling people to vote I would tell people to educate themself on the history(recent and distant) of the issues. This was the belief of James Madison and Alexander Hamilton. All of us on YN are pretty knowledgable about politics. I wouldn't have to tell any of you to vote because you are all smart enough to pro-activley educate yourselvees on the issues and make a decision based on the information you aquired. Alexander Hamilton mapped this idea in Federalist paper number 10. It is the reason we have a legislature. The founding fathers new that the populus was not educated enough on the complexities of the issues to vote on every little (what is now a) house resolution or appear for a ways and means testimony. If we were a highly educated nation I would be very happy with high voter turnout. But sadly we are not. So until our populus starts placing a higher value on post-secondary education I will continue to be pluralist.

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If you beleive in a pluralist approach to democracy as I do than 50% is too high of a turnout.

Yeah, only a tad more than half your country cares. How admirable.

If you have the damn choice to vote, it is your duty as a citizen of your country to vote. In not doing so you're an irresponsible idiot.

And, still, if you're not able to get that other half of your country to care, how do you expect other countries, in which not only have you forced a democracy, but forced it using warfare, to care too? Sure, these elections went well in Iraq, but, the Middle East problems have gone for a hell long time and it's likely this country needs a lot more to be saved.

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meant our election. it was the best since the Nixon election.

Funny how you vote more only when the fate of your country hangs on a balance.

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Today a man in a political program here said, "I find it hilarious that the United States are trying to force a democracy and the power of voting in Iraq when only around 50% of the American population votes".

If you beleive in a pluralist approach to democracy as I do than 50% is too high of a turnout.

I believe that we should leave as soon as it is safe to do so. By that, I mean, the government needs to be stable and able to defend itself without US troops to babysit them. Unfortunately, that may not be for a while.

A couple things- first, I'm not sure if it is right to "force" them into a democracy. However, I do have a response to the 50-60% of America voting. While 40% of Americans do not vote, they still have the right and the oppurtunity to vote. Before this time, the people in Iraq could do nothing to voice their opinions. Now, at least they can make themselves heard. I think that having the choice to vote or not is better than not being able to at all.

i meant our election. it was the best since the Nixon election.

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Originally posted by redrepublican:
the last election i believe was more than 50%.

It was around 60% which was better than the U.S voting

the last election i believe was more than 50%.

Today a man in a political program here said, "I find it hilarious that the United States are trying to force a democracy and the power of voting in Iraq when only around 50% of the American population votes".

Well, its a temporary government..the elected people are in office for 11 months and have to create a constitution that Iraqis will vote on in about year from now. We cant leave asap because its irresponsible we are there now and we need to help them through the long difficult process called a democracy