I KNOW that I'm starting a REALLY touchy topic here (judging by some people's posts...), but is communism really as a lot of people say it is? I used to think that Karl Marx was right up there with Adolf Hitler and the like, but then I did some research...

Marx was thinking up his theories at a time when the Industrial Revolution was at its peek, and capitalism was the only way to go for wealthy industrial nations. It brought a lot of progress, but it also caused widespread abuse and mistreatment of those that worked in the factories. Read something by Charles D i c k e n s (...stupid thing won't let me type his name for some reason...), and you'll know what I mean. Marx saw this, and thought that the only way that these impovershed people would have justice would be to unite against the wealthy factory owners and start their own government, where the wealth was distributed equally, and no one had power over everyone else. But Marx came up with this BEFORE there were reforms in the capitalist system: labor unions, minimum wages, shorter work days, better conditions, etc. So in many ways, Marx's ideals are a bit outdated, I think.
The countries that turned to communism weren't really following Marx's theory. He said that only advanced industrialised nations could become communist, but so far all the countries that did this (for example, China, Cuba, the Soviet Union...) were far from being advanced or industrialised. They were practically stuck in the Middle Ages in comparison to the U.S. or Great Britain! And Marx wanted the people to rule themselves. Instead, what happens in these countries is that the people are ruled by a powerful dictatorship of a few people that CLAIM that they represent the people, but they only represent their own selfish interests. It was mainly Lenin that came up with this idea... In effect, the economic elites are replaced by government elites.

Well, that's my little lecture. I suggest reading some more on this subject; it's pretty interesting (I love to learn about extremist ideologies ) It just helps to know what you're bashing before you bash it...

Jill

Communism...Good Idea gone wrong.

There is just a huge misconception about Communism. A real communist nation does not have a dictator, or a leader. In the beginning of communism, you have a leader but that leader is supposed to step down and eventually, the the nation is ran by the people, not by one person. The only reason why Communism is seen as evil is because of what communist leaders did in their actions. Take for example, Stalin who killed millions of his own people. But also consider this: the US was also thinking about Communism until Franklin D. Roosevelt created programs to convince Americans to stay democratic during the Great Depression.

Communism has its good and bad sides, and theoretically it is a wonderful idea. I do agree that human nature does not follow it and its also not a realistic society. However, Communism gave birth to Socialism and socialism lives in many, many governments today. This is shown in the US, Europe and Canada. Things like universal healthcare and welfare are socialist programs that I feel, came from the ideas of Communism.

You can't blame Communism for being evil. If you read about leaders like Mao and if you read about Marx, they inspire and give hope to people who were oppressed and poor; people who worked long hours just to earn money that probably couldn't even get them a good meal. It is not COMMUNISM that is evil, it is the person who becomes evil. When a person wants more power and abuses their power, then they are evil. That is not to say that Marx or Mao are evil. They are seen as heroes as they should be, even though in our generation, they aren't.

The closest thing to a real Communist country is Cuba. But I would like to add that no one starves in Cuba and they have good healthcare.

Socialist ideas are the same as Communist ideas, however their approach to achieving these ideas are different. Socialism achieves its goals through peaceful actions while Communism calls for a violent revolt. Without Communism, socialism would not exist and without socialism, many things like welfare, social security, and universal healthcare would probably not exist today.

I agree, the equal payement is a major flaw. It's not fair for a doctor who spent 8 years studying in colleges to earn as much as a waitor. With a system like this, people would have no interest in getting a good job or good education. Another thing is if people all earned the same than there would be no competition, and we all know that competition is the core of any economy.

There are issues other than the salaries.

First of all, communism as an ideology, is a cycle. The bourgeoisie gets attacked by the proletariat, and the proletariat takes over. As time goes, a new bourgeoisie will inevitably form, which brings us back to the beginning and we'll have to start all over again.

Another flaw is that the communist government consists of the people. The people are and run the government. With Russia, for example, the country was huge and was home to millions of people. Its impossible for every person to have his/her say and run the government. If they were to try to run this system they would have gotten nowhere other than a potential civil war.

That is the reason for the Bolsheviks to emerge under Lenin. The Bolsheviks split from the Mensheviks because they knew it was impossible to run a country the way Karl Marx wanted. They believed in forming a group that would run the government representing the people. Sort of played along the lines of democracy. Most people have the impression that Lenin and Communism are the devil, especially during the Red Scare. What some people dont understand is that Lenin was able to take over during a civil war in Russia (which he didnt start). He was able to improve living conditions for the poor in Russia. He formed the New Economic Policy which gave Russians more freedom in economics and businesses (which also played along the lines of democracy). He also gave them back their lands after the war ended. This altered form of communisim may have worked.

Stalin, Lenin's successor, on the other hand, was pure evil. And the governement he setup wasnt communism. It was totalitarianism.

communism isn't a bad idea but it wouldn't work b/c we're all human and we could not live with that system for long without destroying eachother

the central idea of communisim is that every one is equal in status wealth ect. so that no one has or earns more than any one near him so if person at 123 gnome rd. gets a $50 raise every one in the neighborhood gets a $50 raise and if you think of it the basic principles of communisim if they were able to be applied correctly would make a great government when mixed with a democracy

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Originally posted by sammysmittey:
i am sorry but i think that having a communist government would be horrible. because the government would tell us what to eat, wear for clothing, where to work, and where to go to school. that is why i dont like the idea of a communist government.

Um, that's not what communism is. Do some research, please.

i am sorry but i think that having a communist government would be horrible. because the government would tell us what to eat, wear for clothing, where to work, and where to go to school. that is why i dont like the idea of a communist government.

getting ideas like the one i posted horse comes from talking about politics and differnt types of government with unfortunatly some one who did cocaine and probably on it at the time

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Originally posted by SLASHIROTH:
pure comunisim is a good theory in government that went wrong due to human nature
but i htink if youmix a democracy and a communistic government together the country might do better than just either type of government by its self

That's pretty much my take on the matter as well Slash.

pure comunisim is a good theory in government that went wrong due to human nature
but i htink if youmix a democracy and a communistic government together the country might do better than just either type of government by its self

quote:

it is humanly impossible, and will never work in this universe.

In it's purest form you're probably right, but I would just like to point out that there are several countries with communistic governments in the world today.

To the original question, I think I already replied, go hunt for it if you're that interested in my opinion.

My personal opinion on this subject might be entirely different from a ton of people's opinions.
Any ways, I believe personally that Communism would be a perfect form of Government.

HOWEVER! it is humanly impossible, and will never work in this universe. The only way a Communist Government would succeed is if there was an absolute perfect person i.e. God. Also there would have to be no greed, jelousy, theives, or anything that would cause hate in the world to prevent utter chaos along with this perfect person. And not to mention everyone wanting and looking the same. Making the world extremly boring.

Since America is the nation of freedom, achieving this is impossible. (and the entire fact of not having a godly person in the world.) But there are so many people in the world that believe different things and have many opinions. All aspects that would effect the idea.

I think people need to have more of an open mind about something other than a democracy. I'm not saying its good, and I want it to happen. But people should understand where the idea is generating from and why it is being brought up.

America's democracy is definatly not all its cracked up to be and definatly has its major flaws. So therefore, why not look at something different and get a new perspective?

Just my opinion...
like I said might be totally different than what the norm think but its an idea that is far fetched.

Makenna

i really hope you were being sarcastic.....

I love anime....oh yea! communism is not evil! fight the power against the rich lazy &^%*( who make are desicions grrr

Well yes, that's what I meant : the market economy is what is driving their government. Otherwise, you're right, how could they have made it this far without international trade? Maybe I shouldn't have spoken so soon...

Unfortunately, risk, the over centralization, one party rule, and overall rigidness of the socialist system is why it easily succumb too all those problems. It allowed dictators and party-line politics to run the system rather than what was actually needed. Yes, maybe if this didn't happen, and maybe if that didn't happen. Maybe if the whole of Soviet history went differently, it could have worked. The problem is, the system had a large impact on the course of history.

Communism isn't even working in China despite all the slow, planned reforms. Thier economy is still being driven by the market system, and if they didn't have the bloated free nations in North America and Europe to sell thier products too they'd be screwed. All the while, there's still huge income disparities, which are worse than many developed capitalist nations, I believe.

If it hadn't been for Soviet corruption and issues such as the Kazachstan affair, the Russian economy could have prospered under centralisation and collective agriculture, and easily surpased much of the world. However there was too much infighting between the soviets which allowed the Russian president - Yeltsin to oppose Gorbachev's minor reforms and demand more radical reform, whereas the conservatives sought to return to somewhere between Stalinism and Gorbachevism, believing Gorbachev was a traitor to soviet socialism. This is just some of the conflict which was the death of communism in August 1991, had there been more time, more co-operation from the varipus republics, had the Union Treaty worked, communism could easily have survived and created a prosperous economy.

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China is pretty close to being a communist-ic country.

They have propriety which runs pretty contrary to communsim.

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Its just a form of government that doesn't work.

It was easily corrupted in the Soviet Union/USSR/Russia... That's a terrible example. China is pretty close to being a communist-ic country. And they're exceeding American ability.

Yup. Communism isn't evil, people are evil.