So, not to keep harping on this, but remember how people protested over the Miss World pageant in Nigeria? Some Muslims were mad about a comment that was made in the newspaper -- that Mohammed would've approved of the pageant and he would've even picked a wife!

I'm sad that over 200 people died in the riots over the whole thing, but some people think those newspaper comments were offensive. Were they?

And don't people have the right to say they don't want a beauty pageant held where they live if it's offensive to them? (But on the other hand, some women in Nigeria aren't treated all that great either, like that woman who might be stoned to death.

I don't know. I guess what I'm saying is why do we always have to be the culture police and say what other people should and should NOT accept in their culture?

i know differenr cultures have differet relgious beliefs and thats fine. but since when was it ever right to take another hunman beings life? and what's worse they want to take someone's mother. they want to take away the only family that little child has. do they not consdier that do they not even being to understand what that poor woman must be going through? I understand that they treat their religion seriously and i have no probelm with their relgion its their laws that seem only yo affect women. they are not going to punish the man who got her pregnate. so he can go out and do this again beacause nothing is going to happen to him. its wrong if they are going to punish her they should punish him too, since he is the one who got her in that condition

I totally agree with you!

Castration and circumcision? A bit over the top, don't ya think? I'm just gonna let myself think you're joking and move on.
I agree with you, however, about everything else, but the last bit was...
People can disagree with what you're saying if they want to, you can't control what people think and do. Thats what the governments are trying do and look whats happening to the world. If people think you're wrong or disagree with what you're saying, you can't do anything about so don't try to be an arse.

*Star*

To defend atrocities on the basis of "culture" is ludicrous. If postmodernists want to live in their own little anarchist world, fine. But moral relativism is useless when making practical decisions regarding the real world. Making decisions requires either a moral philosophy, or naked self-interest. The latter option is fine for deciding the way an individual will act, but not for governing. Moral decision-making is required. By defending something because it is "culture" one makes a moral argument. What if it's part of someone's culture to suppress other cultures? Ultimately, one moral philosophy will have to dominate others, so we should at least choose the moral philosophy that causes the most happiness. People have rights, but cultural freedom does not extend so far as to allow you to force your culture on someone else. If the UN intervenes to stop barbaric practices, it is protecting the freedoms of the oppressed, not interfering with the freedoms of the oppressors. To all who disagree with me: I have a very large knife I can castrate you with if you're male, or a needle and thread to perform circumcision with if you're female. I think any moral relativist in the world would feel very differently about it after having his/her genitals mutilated.

Why shouldn't women get to do the same as men around the world? We're just as good sometimes better. I think that we(the UN and America) shouldn't always jump in and change a situation to the way WE think is right. The best way to do so is to learn and understand the situation before trying to change it.

If one wants respect, one must respect others first in order to gain it. Other people, who have been raised in a different environment will probably not take things the way you might take a comment. In America freedom of speech is a foundation stone of our country, but in other places it might be something you rarely hear about. In other countries respect is a great issue. I know that we must do something to change it, but it's certainly not gonna help to insult someones beliefs and cultures, that will only make them close there ears and turn to anger. And how can you make someone hear your voice when they don't wanna hear what you have to say? Some people, unfortunatly, can be very closed-minded, but if you endure and stay firm on what you want to change about this world you can make a difference wether you believe it or not. Words are very strong, becareful how you use them.

quote:

---

I don't think the newspaper should have made any comments about Muhhamed approving of a pageant and what-not. Every time someone tries to make a point, others always takes their words and twists them around and make them offensive.

---

then you shouldnt say anything about anything because someone is going to construe something wrong about something and that wouldnt be good. in fact you shouldnt say what you are saying becaues someone my twist you rules around to be against free speech to one group but not for another.

I don't think the newspaper should have made any comments about Muhhamed approving of a pageant and what-not. Every time someone tries to make a point, others always takes their words and twists them around and make them offensive.

On the other hand, I don't think the article was in the least bit offensive But then again, there are always the ones that likes to cause confusion and chaos in lives.

I think the Nigerians had a right to speak out if they felt a pageant was wrong or whatever. If they were so distressed over that, why didn't they just not allow a representative in it. Wouldn't that be the smart thing to do?

I don't see what's the big deal anyhow, I think pageants are just there so all the masses can gawk over the 'beautiful' people.

Nobody has a right to say what's right and what's not. No one is omniscient, so how would they know. It all depends on how one feels about something and how they act on it.

*Star*

Isn't it a little hypocritial to say that people should be free to believe what they wish, say what they wish etc, and then declare their beliefs wrong or cruel?

I have friends who have recently been informed they can no longer attend their church as they are divorced. Is that not also cruel?

I dont' support cruelty of any kind, but I believe that to truly be able to say, 'Everyone is free to believe in what they wish', you must be able to stand by that, even when you dont' agree with what they believe in.

quote:

---

Why not, rockrgirl? I would agree that freedom of speach allows anyone to say what they believe, but that seems disrespectful of the founder of one of the worlds largest religions.

---

My belief in freedom of speech tells me that she had the right to say that if she wanted, despite it's being disrespectful.

Maybe in a moral light, it was wrong to say. But in a political or social light, it was her right to say it.

What was wrong was that 200 people died because of it, and that's not her fault and she shouldn't be blamed for it.

Why not, rockrgirl? I would agree that freedom of speach allows anyone to say what they believe, but that seems disrespectful of the founder of one of the worlds largest religions.

quote:

---

but where this is taking place maybe virginity is a virtue and it's part of there religion and we cant change that now can we

---

It's the same for many here. But if a man decides to bomb an abortion clinic, it's obviously murder and terrorism. Relgion or opinion doesn't change crimes this heinous. There is a reason the secular state succeeds.

200 people didn't die when the pledge ruling was delt, no one was slaughtered when Lennon said the Beatles were bigger than Jesus.

Some things are beyond postmodernism. And some parts of the world are still several hundred years behind the rest when it comes to human rights and civility. And that's just the way the Ottomans wanted it.

i think it's wrong the way some cultures treat women but i think that since it's part of their religion then thiers nothing we can do to stop them. take for example the women they are putting to death because she was thought to have had sex before she was married. in the u.s people have sex when there no t married and thats choice but where this is taking place maybe virginity is a virtue and it's part of there religion and we cant change that now can we

quote:

---

This is tough. It was wrong of the reporter to make comments about Mohammed.

---

I don't think it was wrong.

This is tough. It was wrong of the reporter to make comments about Mohammed. We all need to be respectful of other cultures and religions, but if someone is being treated unfairly like Amina Lawal, then it's time to take action.

Society is always evolving, though some cultures are still in the past. There is a lot of unfair treatment in the world, such as in India with their caste system. People should not be judged on things they can't help, like what class they're born into, but on things they do and say. I think that when society starts cutting into people's rights to be treated fairly as human beings, then it's time to intervene, as long as it's done respectfully.

Peace out,
~Cb526

Right on outspoken one. You hit the nail on the head. Why would you subject yourself to something that you find offensive and even then put one of your own people in the same boat and then harp about it? I just amazes me what some people do in order to stir up a little controversy.

This is a toughie. Although I feel that we should not play "culture police" I'm all for equal rights. I don't think it was wise for the reporter to makes the comment about Muhammad, you'd think one would know better. I mean, think about the stir it caused when the pledge was declared unconstitutional here.

You'd think if Nigeria had a problem with stuff like that, they wouldn't have a runner in the Miss World pageant.

Oh well.