Judging by the rhetoric and the uneducated, non-intellectual statements and support coming from many members on this site ...most of you people embrace the Communist Manifesto, or at least several planks of it.

There is, however, a pact of libertarians, which is good. Now, if we could all educate the Commies ...in ways of "it's our money, not yours" of course.

You're welcome.

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But then again, you are a Texan, so you believe in the white man's perfect world...

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Wow, an attack which also happens to be nasty generalization. Thanks Comrade, for using one person to attack a whole group of people.

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Anyways, yeah, communism is a good idea, but it's flawed, it doesn't award individual acchievement. A society that does not do this crumples.

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How can it be a "good idea" if it's flawed, doesn't award individual achievement, and doesn't work in real life? That sounds like a pretty bad, hopelessly unrealistic idea to me.

Wow, nice dose of completely idiotic commentary there, Joey. The US circa the 1700s being "just smart people, and educated people, and people who valued true liberty, freedom."

I'm going to pray to your non-existant god that what you said was a joke, because...I mean...wow...

JUST smart, educated people who valued true liberty and freedom? What about the much higher illiteracy rates, all the British loyalists, all the rampant Indian killing, the slavery...

Are you really denying that occured?

But then again, you are a Texan, so you believe in the white man's perfect world...

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smart people, and educated people, and people who valued true liberty, freedom

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Not all Americans were learned or educated, or even really valued Liberty and Freedom. The average American before and even during the Revolutionary war didn't really care either way, or supported the British. We did spark the French Revolution though, which was an envy thing. Sorry, not trying to start a fight, but I hate imprecise or romanticized history. (Like it was the French really that fought the war for us. only ten percent of the Revolutionary forces at Yorktown were American, the rest were French.)

Anyways, yeah, communism is a good idea, but it's flawed, it doesn't award individual acchievement. A society that does not do this crumples.

I also heard on the radio about this historian who had studied other republics and democracies (Rome, Greece...) And it goes through several phases, and the final, and the one that causes the form of government to implode, is when the population learns that they can vote to give themselves the wealth of the government.

The greedy self nature of humans cannot be overcome to create a utopian society, doesn't that blow.

Yeah, Europeans are being shoved with this world government organization called the European Union; of course, there are the critics, and rightfully so, but a majority of Europeans are so effing stupid to realize that their rights and nation's independence are being taken away little by little.

Like with the U.S., but on a much larger scale.

Do you realize, if we had one continent of just smart people, and educated people, and people who valued true liberty, freedom, etc., that it would be the envy of the entire world?

Yeah, I just described the U.S. circa 1700s. My have times changed.

Tweet, you remember one thing; my name isn't Tweet. I'm not you. I don't live with you. I don't know you.

So I sure as heck shouldn't support you.

I would, though, voluntarily.

That's the thing about how this country was created; it was voluntary exchange of ideas, goods, etc.

You have no valid argument to justify what you said about how the private businesses can't provide healthcare and retirement to old folks, when they've been doing it SINCE THOSE SOCIALIST PROGRAMS WERE CREATED.

This is why you'll never hear of a leftist intellectual; it's an oxymoron, emphasis on moron.

Okay, Europe is obviously more liberal on average on the U.S., but you say liberals have destroyed our schools? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

You guys are just arguing qualitative and inferred bs back and forth, it doesn't appear there will be a resolution, and you will have fulfilled Joey's desire of causing strife stemming from this issue. I am certainly a fan of communism in principle, but due to human nature and the situation of scarcity(limited resources to fulfill unlimited wants and needs) it is impossible on a large scale. That is not to say that small scale communes and such are not possible, existant, efficient, and enjoyable for the members though.

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Oh, anyway, I'm about to smash your whole little, "republicans are more educated than democrats" theory let's take that very same theory and apply it to let's say....europe... europeans, who are more liberal than the average american ever would be, and europeans, who are more educated than the average american ever will be

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Oh, really? Do you have a source for that? Their schools are cerainly better (because the liberals and their union buddies here have run ours into the ground) but I haven't heard that average adult educational achievement is higher in Europe than the U.S.

In any case, the "conservative" U.S. has done vastly more with our educational system, broken or not. We still are far more innovative and still are the economic superpower, at least right now. "Liberal" Europeans cannot claim so many accomplishments. Duh.

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I recognize that Joey BELIEVES he is supporting Free-market capitalism, but in actuality he is supporting Corporatism.

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I still disagree. I believe that maybe some corrupt form of Corporatism might come about as a result of some of the people he supports. However, since he doesn't support the state and companies controlling the economy he isn't a corporatist by definition. Nor is corporatism necessarily a bad thing. It's been done before in Latin American and European nations in a non-corrupt or evil way. When it was, it produced some of the most evil governments ever, such as Nazi Germany or the modern People's Republic of China. As an economic system it isn't any eviler than the society which enforces it though, like pretty much any other system.

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Forgive me for inserting my two theological cents here, but wasn't Jesus telling the rich man to do that a test of faith rather than a statement that being rich is a bad thing? My impression was that there was nothing wrong with a Christian being rich, so long as s/he doesn't love the money for itself, and put riches above God...

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That is certainly one way to look at it.
Perhaps it was another idea Jesus had in mind.

To see if he cared more for god, than his money.

Luke 18:22-25
When Jesus heard this [That the rich ruler had kept the commandments since a boy] he said to him, 'You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go though the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Perhaps not so much being rich but being obsessed with money, and being greedy, and always living in the lap of luxury, when there are people who have nothing.

If you care more about your money then God, then you can't get into heaven, nor can you of you are not willing to give what you don't need to those who have nothing at all.

Sorry, jsut thinking thoughts like "Noisees are Commees" makes me laugh for some reason. Nt funny i know but it does

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Apples and oranges.

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No, not really, because they are based off ideologies and therefore can be compared.

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I never said ALL thing require monetary incentive to do. I said work.

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I wasn't saying you did. I very simply was pointing out the idea that incentive, in the work place, only pertains to monetary gain, is flawed.

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Why do people work? To make money. This is how it is supposed to be. Make money to support your family, and yourself.

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I agree, the main reason that most people work is to survive, I never said that wasn't true, that is a practicality. But why you work a certain profession and where you work is based on incentives and monetary incentives are not the only ones. I think you misread the intention of my original post. It was not my intention to bash you personally or even your religion. Very simply it was to point out that there are other areas that people can draw incentives to work hard, besides monetary gain. I was using your religion because it was particularly effective in this situation. I was hoping you would get the point that such people as mother Theresa didn't do charity work because of monetary gain, but rather because of the incentive of being a genuinely good person; this would be a moral incentive. Or maybe she got incentive from it because she genuinely enjoyed here work; enjoyment incentive.

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Going to heaven.

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This is exactly what I expected; this is exactly where the hypocrisy kicks in.

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Christianity practices that being rich is bad, because you can love the spoils of the world too much. Jesus told a rich man to sell everything, give the money to the poor and follow him.

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Forgive me for inserting my two theological cents here, but wasn't Jesus telling the rich man to do that a test of faith rather than a statement that being rich is a bad thing? My impression was that there was nothing wrong with a Christian being rich, so long as s/he doesn't love the money for itself, and put riches above God...

Love, Jen.

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If working is purely about supporting a family, socialism would actually be perfect.

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In theory, sure.

But again we need people like doctor and inventers.
I never said working a PURELY to support a family. Otherwise being something like a Bio engineer would only be for a handful of people who really love Biological science.

If given the choice between heart surgeon and a janitor, if both pay the same, which do you think most people would choose?

Also in socialism, people don’t make more money for working hard(er) (and in all fairness neither does capitalism for the most part, but if you do work hard enough you will get promoted and a raise) then others around you. So again there is no incentive to do a good job at what your doing. Even if you do get fired, its not like your not going to get money anymore.

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Donating money to private organizations wont give people healthcare, wont guarantee that the elderly have enough money to survive.

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Once again, I never said ALL socialism is wrong.

I don't believe in giving money to people who CAN work, but don't try to, instead mooch off everyone who does.

Elderly, who doesn't have anyone compassionate enough in their own family to take care of them, and disabled people (who can't help but be disabled) should get SOME help.

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Taxation is not stealing. By being a citizen of this country, you agree to follow the rules. The rules are to pay your taxes.

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Forcing someone to work hard all day to support himself, and his family, then take half of his money to support some high school dropout who can't get a high paying job, IS stealing.

If people work hard, and have the determination they CAN be successful. People like drug users or convicted felons who can't get a good job because of their poor life choices, have no excuses in my opinion.

If they want to change, they can and still be successful. But is it right to have someone pick up 200$ in food stamps and sell them to some guy for 100$ so he can buy some beer?

Privet, self-help, organizations in my opinion are the best route to help a PERSON. Making rich people responsible for the wrong choices of others is Penalizing someone for succeeding, and regarding someone for deliberately failing.

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Why do people work? To make money. This is how it is supposed to be.

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Not completely true. I have chosen my career because it is something I truely care about. Money is secondary. If supporting a family was my only concern, I would choose something easier. If making as much money as i could was my main concern, I would choose a different career.

If working is purely about supporting a family, socialism would actually be perfect. EVERYONE makes enough to support their family. But like I said, I dont support a completely socialist society.

That post was actually aimed at Joey, Korith. I know you are a true Christain. But since you responded...

Donating money to private organizations is all well and good, but it will not solve the problems that need to be solved. We need to have organized programs to help those that need it. Donating money to private organizations wont give people healthcare, wont guarantee that the elderly have enough money to survive. Taxation is not stealing. By being a citizen of this country, you agree to follow the rules. The rules are to pay your taxes. If you dont like it you are perfectly free to leave.