When you burn the flag you are essentially symbolically rejecting the constitution, the country, and your heritage. When you burn it for that reason, you in effect give up your right of free speech since you reject everything about your country, good or bad. Therefore, people should not complain when the same country they insulted so much and rejected suddenly rejects them. Just because its legal doesn't make it right, and vice versa.
Someone earlier brought up the Swastika, and all I can say is this: The symbolism of the Swastika is only apparent when it is placed in the Nazi color scheme, otherwise it is a acceptable symbol due to its long overwhelmingly positive history. Actually, in reality I would sometimes consider the peace flag to be worse than the Swastika , if comparing the use of the peace flag at socialist rallies to the use of the Swastika at Buddhist temples and other places. In the end, it is the intent of those using a symbol that determines whether it is good or bad, not the symbol itslef. In the case of Flag burning, the intent is very clear, and therefore is generally reviled.
get over it... you are allowed to burn the flag, and there is nothing you can do about it. It was ruled by the Supreme Court in the Texas vs Johnson case (maybe it's wasn't johnson... but that sounds right to me, i'm too lazy to look it up though, but it was definately texas) that it is free speech and that nobody can stop you from doing it, unless it disurbs the peace. I'm not saying i agree with burning the flag, but i do agree that people should be allowed to do it. Our country was formed on people figting the government, spitting on soldiers, burning flags, and so many other "rebelious" things. If people have a problem with what is going on in our country, they have the right to speak out about it. But... if people absolutely dispise our country and are doing all the time, they should just go to Canada and become a freakin mountie our something.
I agree with Billy. This is something that I love. I thought about it and was able to find it. Everybody should read this and, if you want to burn a flag as symbolic speech, you should ask for the permission from these people.
quote: Our Flag
Does the First Amendment give us the right to desecrate the American flag?
Or is the flag a sacred symbol of our nation, deserving protection by law?
Tough call?
"The Solution"
For those who want to light Old Glory on fire, stomp all over it, or spit on it to make some sort of "statement," I say let them do it. But under one condition: they MUST get permission from three sponsors.
First, you need permission of a war veteran....Perhaps a Marine who fought at Iwo Jima? The American flag was raised over Mount Surabachi upon the bodies of thousands of dead buddies. Each night spent on Iwo Jima meant half of everyone you knew would be dead tomorrow, a coin flip away from a bloody end upon a patch of sand your mother couldn't find on a map.
Or maybe ask a Vietnam vet who spent years tortured in a small, filthy cell unfit for a dog. Or a Korean War soldier who helped rescue half a nation from Communism, or a Desert Storm warrior who repulsed a bloody dictator from raping and pillaging an innocent country. That flag represented your mother and father, your sister and brother, your friends, neighbors, and everyone at home. I wonder what they would say if someone asked them permission to burn the American flag?
Second, you need a signature from an immigrant. Their brothers and sisters may still languish in their native land, often under tyranny, poverty and misery. Or maybe they died on the way here, never to touch our shores. Some have seen friends and family get tortured and murdered by their own government for daring to do things we take for granted every day. For those who risked everything simply for the chance to become an American, what kind of feelings do they have for the flag when they Pledge Allegiance the first time? Go to a naturalization ceremony and see for yourself, the tears of pride, the thanks, the love and respect of this nation, as they finally embrace the American flag as their own. Ask one of them if it would be OK to burn the flag or spit on it.
Third, you should get the signature of a mother. Not just any mother. You need a mother of someone who gave their life for America. It doesn't even have to be from a war. It could be a cop. Or a fireman. Maybe a Secret Service or NSA agent. Then again, it could be a common foot soldier as well. When that son or daughter is laid to rest, their family is given one gift by the American people; an American flag. Go on. I dare you! Ask that mother if you can spit on her flag. Away from family, away from the precious shores of home, in the face of overwhelming odds and often in the face of death, the American flag inspires those who believe in the American dream, the American promise, the American vision...
Americans who don't appreciate the flag don't appreciate this nation. And those who appreciate this nation appreciate the American flag. So if you want to desecrate the American flag, before you spit on it or before you burn it, I have a simple request. Just ask permission. Not from the Constitution. Not from some obscure law. Not from the politicians or the pundits. Instead, ask those who have defended our nation so that we may be free today. Ask those who struggled to reach our shores so that they may join us in the American dream. And ask those who clutch a flag in place of their sacrificed sons and daughters, given to this nation so that others may be free. For we cannot ask permission from those who died wishing they could, just once ... or once again ... see, touch or kiss the flag that stands for our nation, the United States of America ... the greatest nation on earth.
quote: burn the flag not necessarily out of hatred of their country, but just to make a show, so that people will listen to you.
If listening to you includes beating your ***, then I guess your point gets made. Nice try with all the symbolism, but you fall pretty short. I don't care if the flag has 13 stars in a circle or a picture of a duck on it, it represents this country, and it represents the things many in this world do not have. It represents my family who believed in this country, who were part of building it and defending it.
If you burn our flag, then basically you get no respect from me, I don't care what you are trying to prove! In short you suck!
What do I mean by that? I mean that the American Flag is not inherently a symbol of anything. When the colonies were first founded, the flag was chosen one of many. (One of the famous alternate flags involved a snake logo with the word inscribed, "Don't Tread on Me," an irrelevant message today.) If the current flag really was an inherent symbol of peace and democracy, then it would have been the only choice. ("Hey, Fred, why don't we use the one with the stripes and stars?" "Why should we?" "Because it's a symbol of democracy, silly!") It only became such a symbol after it was selected.
Take the swastika. Although it is normally associated with Nazism, the swastika has origionally found many positive meanings with many other cultures, such as life, the sun, power, and goodness. The swastika has existed for well over 3,000 years.
In an alternate universe, the swastika means goodness and light, the peace sign means war, and to flip the middle finger is a compliment. The burning of the American flag is not an inherently wrong thing to do, because all that's depicted is stars and stripes that represent a multitude of states comprising one country - a logo that could be used by any "evil" country as well. In the end, people burn the flag not necessarily out of hatred of their country, but just to make a show, so that people will listen to you.
it would be more analogous to burn a picture of me if i offended you. i would have no problem with it, although i would be curious why anyone would hate me that much.
burning down someone else's garage is destroying others' property. the right to burn the flag is a protected right; burning down the flag at the white house is not a protected right.
The American Flag is probably the most recognized symbol in the world. It stands for everybody being equal, everybody having peace, independence and a choice and many, many different rights. People who burn the flag are trying, failing, but trying, to deny us those rights. Whether those people are Americans or any other race, it doesn't matter. The Flag is a symbol of what many people who lived and died for America have done to make this Country great. That being said, flag burning is a form of protest, and also, right now, is protected under Freedom of Speech. The Amendment is stupid, and probably will never be passed. America all ready has too many laws to worry about, they certainly don't need another one.
The burning of the flag does NOT suggest hatred of one's country - perhaps, for example, hatred of whatever the current administration might be, or perhaps merely of the flag itself - you believe the flag should be different somehow. To disrespect one's leader or symbolic imagery is not synonymous with disrespect of one's country - a very pertinent issue what with all the (justified or no?) Bush-hating.
I don't think it should be illegal. But if one feels the need to burn an American flag, they should get the hell out of the country. They don't have to live here if they dislike the country so much.
The great thing about America is that you are able to protest without worrying about being persecuted because of what you stand for. This being said, flag burning is legal and should be. I wish it was banned but that wouldn't be right because it would be infringing on somebody's First Amendment rights. But, if I ever see you burning a flag, I will hurt you seriously. That is MY flag, it stands for everything I believe, and you will not desecrate it in front of me.
<aren't you supposed to burn the flag if it touches the ground or something?>
No, you are not. If it is still in good condition, it should be displayed. If it is falling apart or in otherwise poor condition, you may retire it. This is done by burning but in special ceremonies. I believe that you can take a retired flag to your local American Legion for them to perform this service.
We were learning about this issue in my Government class, specifically with the Texas vs Johnson case on flag burning. Although the Supreme Court discourages the action, flag burning is protected as being "symbolic speech" under the 1st Amendment. I personally think that a person has a right to express themselves through burning a flag. Especially if it's their own flag and it doesn't directly hurt anyone.
By your collective standard, xbubblesx and outspokenme, everything that could possibly lead to harmful violence - sporting events (which invariably lead to injuries), disagreements (which have been well known to lead to violence), and controvertial bumper stickers.
The only other reason that I can think of to illegalize flag-burning is that it is an expression of unpatriotic sentiment and disagreement with the government. So I assume you want petitions that redess greivences to be made illegal (a right also guarenteed by the same amendment as freedom of speech). And you can say goodbye to this whole Youthnoise thing, as its members have been known to express unpatriotic sentiment.
No, flag burning shouldn't be made illegal... Outlawing it won't stop any anti-American sentiments, and besides, it's just a flag. There are other things that represent our country better, such as the Statue of Liberty and the World Trade Center that is, unfortunately, no longer standing. When the true symbols of the nation begin to be destroyed is when we should take action.
It *should not* be banned. It is simply showing dislike for the country, which is fully within constitution rights. Take that right away, and suddenly America looks more and more like a dictatorship.
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