I will first qoute Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels - 'The real fruit of their (the Communists) battles lies, not in the immediate result, but in the ever-expanding union of the workers.'

Unions are a horrible thing. They are simply a communist scheme to take away the rights of buisness owners. It is sad that our country easily excepts a communist belief as a way 'to protect' workers. All larbor unions do is ruin captialism and lead to what the unions think is an innevitable abolishion of all social classes but the 'working class'. If the day ever comes, unions will lead America on the road to a 'working class' control of ALL means of production.

let me think here....of everyone I know who had a union protect them....hmmm no one, becuase in the end they were all fired or laid off. I can' think of anyone who has one good thing to say about a union....


and yeah global warming is BS, all you need to do is look at the weather records, the hottest years in this country were in the 40s....I thought our ozone was depleating now??? It's almost summer and the weather was in the 50s for the last few weeks....hell if global warming was happening I wish some people would spray some paint around and warm this place up!!

You know, after browsing around eight pages back on these Forum Threads, it's interesting to see all the people who are actually "against" me, but who have the same ideas and beliefs as me.

I'm kinda/sorta learning more about labor unions, "global warming" issues (no such thing) and some other leftist positions so that I can figure out my platform.

Anyway, marine, if you're reading this, I totally agree with your statement about labor unions.

Where does it say in the constitution that workers are protected from businesses? Try the court systems. The list Marine came up with was a result from the court systems. I think in the 1920s or something (don't hold me to the date) mine workers sued the company because of poor work conditions, health problems, too many hours, and poor pay. They won because that is inhumane and you can't treat people like that. So if we have the court systems, why do we need to form unions that complicate things?

Ever hear of minimum wage, Aceracer? Ever hear of 40 hour work weeks, Aceracer? Ever hear of benefits and overtime, Aceracer? Ever hear of child labor laws, Aceracer? Ever hear of working permits for people under 15, Aceracer? Ever hear of safety standards, Aceracer? the government does everything they need to do to protect workers, nothing more is needed.

Your scenario, aceracer, only proved my point that industries wouldn't run over workers if there were no unions. Companies would not want to lose workers so they would give them incentive to stay, not treat them like dirt. The only reason we used to have problems like that is because of illegal immigrants coming over by the thousands and not knowing what we are doing. You can't compare the 1900s to the years 2002.

i call unions communists not because it is my opinion, because they are communists. read the Communists Manifesto.

Please kilo, tell me, where in the bill of rights or quote a statute that states: "The government will not allow business to stomp on employees."

Just curious, because from what it sounds like, you feel it is a given 'basic' right to be protected by the government in the business world. The businesses can do whatever they want with their employees if there are no unions.

Finally, marine- without a union, you would still encounter the same problems. Here, let me give you a hypothetical:

You are a factory owner and i am a factory owner. You pay your workers 1.00 an hour, and i play 1.25 an hour. You have a shortage of workers, so therefore in order to attract them, you raise wages. Everyone flocks to you, and then i become short workers, so i raise my hourly wage...and so on.

Basically while unions seem to be "communist" as you put it, they add some organization to the chaos that would occur. I feel the real problem in this world are the people who want to put in a "maximum wage." Now that is just wrong.

Acer

Marine is right. Labor unions in and of themselves are not necessary. What are they for? To keep the businesses in balance; a total necessary and reasonable cause. But labor unions in theory can cause workers to get away. They are not necessary. Do you really think the gov't is going to allow businesses to stomp on it's employees? No, that would violate basic rights. The cause of labor unions is fair, but the institution of labor unions is completely unecessary.

Actually, Strangelove, I dont think unions are a horrile thing because they are zealous. I think they are a horirble thing because they are communist. I am suprised you didn't pick up on that by reading my post.

You think the unions balance out the 'buisness world', am I right? Well what really balances out the 'buisness world' are the rules and regulations our legistlours set forth. Unions are simply a way, according to Carl Marx, for the 'working class' to eventually overtrow the 'oppresing class'.

A century has passed and the same argument is being used by both sides. We've since found that if both sides are kept in check (yet again ) then the ideal situation can be created.

Some unions may be overzealous, focus on those instead of saying unions are a horrible idea in general.