You have to remember that there are 300 million mouths to feed in America and putting people in fields is going to slow down production and people may starve.

*lightbulb* haha killing two falafel miesters with one stone. How about getting rid of the machines and having people work the fields. That'd solve the animal death problem and also raise the employment rate phenomonally.

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You probably don't, but alot of vegetarians aren't smart enough to read the ingredients labels.

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vegetarians probably aren't, and alot of them eat it anyways. Vegans on the other hand would be silly not to read labels.

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Or grow our own garden

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If mice, rabbits, shrews, voles, insects and other things eat your garden, then what? Or what about winter? Not every vegetarian/vegan lives in a warm climate.

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I don't eat gelatin

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You probably don't, but alot of vegetarians aren't smart enough to read the ingredients labels.

I hope you weren't trying to make me feel bad by posting a picture of a dead pig. That picture did nothing but make me hungry.

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Yeah but, for every pound of beef that is harvested the cow needs 13 lbs of feed.nearly 25 billion animals are slaughtered for meat every year so, thats alotta animal feed. So if you didn't eat meat then you'd be drastically reducing the animals dying both in the fields and in the slaughterhouse.

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That article covers some of your point. Most of those 25 billion are chickens or other small animals. It would take less than 1 billion cattle to feed the US on a pure meat diet. If these animals were raised on pasture then this would result in very little feild animal death. If you read and understand the article, then you wouldn't have bothered with this argument.

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WOW!!! Time magizine.. the same magizine that named Adolph Hitler Man of the Year afew years before WWII

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Man of the Year has to do with who made the most news of the year. Therefore, Hitler was a very logical pick. You're a dolt. Learn your history and what Man of the Year is supposed to be about.

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People are exempt from survival of the fittest because we have everything handed to us. We don't have to hunt, grow plants, build our own house (to an extent) and we have modern medicine. Its obvious that we don't play by mother natures rules anymore.

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Actually, we're still part of Mother Nature, we're just a new type of ecosystem. If anything, AGRICULTURE in general is "against mother nature". So if you're worried about that go back to forraging.

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Or grow our own garden

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I challange you to grow and store all of the food you need. You have little to no idea how much land, planning, and work goes into the amount of plant matter you'll eat in a year.

Chickens before the slaughter



A skinned pig

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Steven Davis, professor of animal science at Oregon State University (at least one study has shown that simply mowing an alfalfa field caused a 50% reduction in the gray-tailed vole population

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Yeah but, for every pound of beef that is harvested the cow needs 13 lbs of feed.nearly 25 billion animals are slaughtered for meat every year so, thats alotta animal feed. So if you didn't eat meat then you'd be drastically reducing the animals dying both in the fields and in the slaughterhouse.

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And I have heard of vegans that grow their own food so that doesn't happen. (the animal killing I mean)

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Yeah, I wanna do that once I get some $$

Personally I thought that Janet Jackson thing was funny..

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99% of the people on there are clueless idiots I would love to go there and debate but if you even imply something other than the "PETA ideals" you are banned.. why do you think that is?? because they know they can't win a factual debate, and if they let people debate they might lose they following.... PETA is a joke!

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Actually they let them stay their for a long time. Even though most of the meat eaters that come to the board just come to insult our way of life. I'd debate you if you came to the board but, most people are just sick of people insulting them.

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did you even read what i posted??? one of the sources was TIME magazine. and http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com/ which actually supports animal rights.

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WOW!!! Time magizine.. the same magizine that named Adolph Hitler Man of the Year afew years before WWII

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"Eating meat is natural. The ingestion of other animals has allowed humans and most other species to survive throughout the course of time. The cycle of life on Earth has always entailed the idea of "Eat, or be eaten." The balance of nature dictates that slower, less capable animals are caught and consumed. This allows advancement of the species; the faster, more able animal survives to procreate.

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People are exempt from survival of the fittest because we have everything handed to us. We don't have to hunt, grow plants, build our own house (to an extent) and we have modern medicine. Its obvious that we don't play by mother natures rules anymore.

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You've also killed animals by: living in a house or apartment, eating Jello or anything with gelatin in it like Skittles

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I don't eat gelatin

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If you really want to stop killing animals, don't eat anything at all and just starve yourself. No matter what we eat, animals are going to die and we are going to die from eating it because that's the nature was meant to be.

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Or grow our own garden

Well, daveman, this "Carnevegism" has absolutely no relevance to the majority of meat eating, because domesticated meat animals have absolutely no chance of "fighting back" or "escaping."

Sorry, Korith, but I seriously doubt it can't be explained to you what animals do to you, because anything related to the "ecosystem," you would probably rack up to God.

Oh yeah, daveman, piling corpses in the shape of letters and holding up your middle finger is VERY creative.

Oh the **** well. I'll eat what I want.

Nice picture, very creative.

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btw, do you think Im religious?!

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*sigh* No I just thought you would agree that that is stupid and ppl are being brainwashed by that mentality. (btw I am jewish so please let's get off the topic) And for the extremist question you don't even try to see things from my point of view.

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did you even read what i posted??? one of the sources was TIME magazine. and http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com/ which actually supports animal rights.

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I just looked at their animal rights section of their site and it doesn't look like they support animal rights. *from the site* "If you feel compelled to tell me how terrible of a person I am for opposing animal rights, please visit due diligence before sending me hate mail. WDC endeavors to provide accurate information. We welcome reasoned suggestions, criticisms and comments our pages. All correspondence becomes property of WDC" And I've read that least harm principal article before.
I live in the country not the city. We have chickens and ducks and horses and cats and dogs...you get the picture. And there are men on the peta2 boards too so you don't think we're just a bunch of school girls talking about dates.

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Why don't you ask "the brain-washed people" yourself? And they are not all as old as me, some are over 20. And where did you get this info? the center for consumer freedom? the cattlemen's association? peta-sucks.com? And believe me, there are more extreme groups than peta. (the animal liberation front and the earth liberation front for instance) Since when has peta killed anybody to eat them?

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did you even read what i posted??? one of the sources was TIME magazine. and http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com/ which actually supports animal rights.


btw, do you think Im religious?! I made a post that christ was a communist.. I think ive said 12948234 times that religion is earths evil.

I also don't drink milk.


YOU ALSO NEVER SAID WHY I AM AN EXREMIST.

slewinca the bury your head in the sand approach doesn't work.. for you to even suggest that animal don't die by the millions in crop harvest shows your lack of knowledge on this subject...
you also forget they are poisoned trapped etc..

yes cows eat grain and such.. but we are not the ones trying to sound morally superior.. we know animal die for us to eat.. they die for you to eat to, you just can't admit that or you loose your soapbox that you are standing on...

peta2 LMAO that place is a joke.. 99% of the people on there are clueless idiots I would love to go there and debate but if you even imply something other than the "PETA ideals" you are banned.. why do you think that is?? because they know they can't win a factual debate, and if they let people debate they might lose they following.... PETA is a joke!

yes we have heard of organic food... but guess what millions of animals die for it also... for ALL the same reasons except pesticides.. and where do you think they get the fertilizer? yep other animals...

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please explain why the artical is BS.

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Why don't you ask "the brain-washed people" yourself? And they are not all as old as me, some are over 20. And where did you get this info? the center for consumer freedom? the cattlemen's association? peta-sucks.com? And believe me, there are more extreme groups than peta. (the animal liberation front and the earth liberation front for instance) Since when has peta killed anybody to eat them?

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Im sure you were outraged with Howard Stern and Janet Jackson.

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I don't care what howard stern does. and with the janet jackson thing sure I was a bit shocked but I wasn't outraged by it.

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Your young 15 year old mind has already been brainwashed by media

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Kids are being brainwashed all the time. brainwashed into eating (well ok wanting and asking for) fattening foods, brainwashed into thinking that george bush is the greatest president that ever lived, brainwashed into thinking that a confession and a few hail marys will save them until next week (I'm sure you agree with me on that one) and brainwashed into thinking that drinking the milk of another species past infancy is normal. BTW I watch bill maher all the time so politically correctness isn't a big deal to me except when it comes to rasism.

Peta2 boards, hahahah, bunch of rabbit hugging idiots.

Do you understand the food chain?

Contaceptives to deer, i hope your not serious, thats the dumbest idea ive ever heard.

how am I an extremist? please answer this question first because I rarely eat meat.

If you are part of an organization that promotes cannablism over eating animals (peta).. thats extreme.

please explain why the artical is BS.

peta2 is such a biased site I cant believe you even suggested that.. How about I find strictley meat eaters board and tell you to post there.

[This message was edited by bauhaus on March 22, 2004 at 10:51 PM.]

Livestock eat corn and soybeans too. And I have heard of vegans that grow their own food so that doesn't happen. (the animal killing I mean) And about number 4, ever heard of organic food? And animals and bugs are killed by cars too. And rats and mice are poisoned on farms.

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never thought of those did you? of course not your an exremist that only listens and believes your side of the story.

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oooo I'm an "exremist" now. excuse me while I go bomb a lab. I could say the same about you.
BTW most of the members of the peta2 boards have seen that article and they know it's bs. Have you ever been there to get their point of view?
BTW you're sick for posting that cartoon.

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And I wouldn't be surprised if the youthnoise admin removed that because it is disgusting

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awwww poor baby, did it hursty wurtsy your eyes because its not politicaly correct enough for you? You are the reason our country has so many restrictions on free speech. Im sure you were outraged with Howard Stern and Janet Jackson.


I still cant believe you trust such an exremist group. Seriously PETA doesnt get any more extreme, they'd rather kill people then animals. You are just as bad as the meat industry. Your young 15 year old mind has already been brainwashed by media.. sigh

if you also notice, my sources arent extreme activist websites and actually have nothing to do with what you eat.

[This message was edited by bauhaus on March 22, 2004 at 10:38 PM.]

Actually it is reality, and PETA knows it.

Sources:
TIME Magazine, July 15 2002, Pg. 56

Steven Davis, professor of animal science at Oregon State University (at least one study has shown that simply mowing an alfalfa field caused a 50% reduction in the gray-tailed vole population

http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com/animalrights/leastharm.htm

Animals of the field are killed by several factors, including:

1. Tractors and farm implements run over them.
2. Plows and cultivators destroy underground burrows and kill animals.
3. Removal of the crops (harvest) removes ground cover allowing animals on the surface to be killed by predators.
4. Application of pesticides.



So, every time the tractor goes through the field to plow, disc, cultivate, apply fertilizer and/or pesticide, harvest, etc., animals are killed. And, intensive agriculture such as corn and soybeans (products central to a vegan diet) kills far more animals of the field than would extensive agriculture like forage production, particularly if the forage was harvested by ruminant animals instead of machines. So perhaps fewer animals would be killed by producing beef, lamb, and dairy products for humans to eat instead of the vegan diet envisioned by Regan.

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never thought of those did you? of course not your an exremist that only listens and believes your side of the story.

You're all sick. except veritaslateo. Believe it or not, cows eat grain too. tons of it. They load them up with it in the feedlots where they fatten them up for slaughter. and chickens eat grain and pigs eat grain....meat-eater or not the crop killing still goes on. And I think a rabbit would be able to run fast enough to get away from that thing. Believe me I have one. And I wouldn't be surprised if the youthnoise admin removed that because it is disgusting. And don't go "that's the reality huh huh huh" That thing would probably be noisy (right?) so, with their keen sense of hearing, most of the animals would run away before they got killed. And about the animals are our friends thing I was coming from a religous standpoint because that's where the person who brought up that question seemed to be coming from. (I don't remember his/her username)

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ASK CARLA... YOU MEAN ASK PETA..LOL SAME THING why would i want to ask a liar? her advice is so chock full of bs!!!!

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Yeah and the meat industry is telling you the God's honest truth. Give me a break. They have too much to gain by lying than by telling you the truth. If you think you're so smart you should go over to www.peta2.com 's message boards and argue with them. Don't act like a jackass or you'll get banned. Don't say I didn't warn you...