Gotta love that Maddox.

<---- Is a proud tree hugger.

what happened there? why did it do that?

"Ugh, I just can't believe some of you tree huggers want to save the coyotes. I'll never understand it"

TREE HUGGER!!!!!! THEMS FIGHTIN WORDS!!!!! LOL

no my point is that many people DO build up stories about predator animals like coyotes wolves and cougars to make them seem like they are a bigger threat than they actually are... i'm all for shooting a coyote if it is messing with my animals, but some people(read:idiots) will just kill them for no reason because others have raided their farm.. i have been with family memebers that have had problem coyotes from time to time, and see them stop and shoot coyotes for no reason... not near their property, not doing any harm, etc... and that is wrong..

the predator tales are the same thing that is happening to pit bulls.. the stories build and then everyone wants them gone or dead, when the majority has done NOTHING wrong..

ASK CARLA... YOU MEAN ASK PETA..LOL SAME THING why would i want to ask a liar? her advice is so chock full of bs!!!!

"Have you?
Maybe you should interview a slaughterhouse worker or something. Or go to a farm yourself, even if I had been to a factory farm, you probably wouldn't believe me anyway."

YES I HAVE.. HAVE YOU?

"Indeed there are. If you take biology class you'll learn that populations go in waves, the population will increase to the capasity of the environment and then a factor will affect the population and it will go down again."

you mean a factor like starvation, or a factor like disease running rampant or hey maybe both!
how compassionate! ok so your argument is pointless...

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So when overpopulation occurs in certain areas, we should just wait it out. That's not much of a solution.

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Well we've been waiting out the human overpopulation problem for long enough then...

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You have coyotes in Iowa?

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Yes. They travel in packs and yowl all night, keep me awake at all hours. Plus we've had a few rabid coyotes stagger into our yard and agitate the dogs. Don't listen to tigercats; coyotes suck.

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coyotes are cool, i used to have one.. they are not that big of a problem when it comes to cows.. many people build this story up... the fact is coyotes will almost never kill a cow.. they will drive them crazy sometimes, but almost never kill one.. calves are a different story.. coyotes will kill calves anytime they get the chance.. cats, chickens small dogs etc....

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Nobody's building the story up. They mostly attack baby cows, as you said. That's still a significant problem. Not to mention, nearly all the farms around here do have cats, chickens, dogs, etc, so coyotes can do serious damage if we allow them to move in close to our farms.

Ugh, I just can't believe some of you tree huggers want to save the coyotes. I'll never understand it.

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I do care about mice, in fact I tried to peel one off a glue trap once. There are other ways of dealing with animal overpopulation. If we were really concerned about deer overpopulation for example, we would be killing the does or giving them contraceptives of some sort.

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So then killing is okay for certain species (deer)?

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Not that I'm saying that feral cats are a good thing, I'm just saying that it's not a big problem.

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And we should allow mice to overpopulate, because you don't feel it's a "big problem"? Is that what you're saying?

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Indeed there are. If you take biology class you'll learn that populations go in waves, the population will increase to the capasity of the environment and then a factor will affect the population and it will go down again.

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So when overpopulation occurs in certain areas, we should just wait it out. That's not much of a solution.

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Also about the cat, dog, mouse thing if people didn't breed them like crazy then the population would be alot smaller.

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Who breeds mice?

I know how to control the dog and cat population. All we have to do is introduce a line of dog- and cat-burgers and get them accepted into the mainstream food market. Problem solved.

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Okay, but now that we have "screwed up" the natural balance, is it okay to kill rodents? In other words, how important are the lives of these animals to you? Important enough that you would allow them to overpopulate?

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There are other ways of dealing with animal overpopulation

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Indeed there are. If you take biology class you'll learn that populations go in waves, the population will increase to the capasity of the environment and then a factor will affect the population and it will go down again. Also about the cat, dog, mouse thing if people didn't breed them like crazy then the population would be alot smaller.

sounds like fun

I know of people who go down to the lower 48 every year to shoot Prairie Dogs for farmers so they can grow corn and wheat.

""There are other ways of dealing with animal overpopulation""

like?

"If we were really concerned about deer overpopulation for example, we would be killing the does or giving them contraceptives of some sort"

people DO kill does, and contaception has been tried and failed to many times to count..

"I've never heard of a mouse overpopulation like I've heard of deer overpopulation or cat and dog overpopulation"

happens all the time..

I do care about mice, in fact I tried to peel one off a glue trap once. There are other ways of dealing with animal overpopulation. If we were really concerned about deer overpopulation for example, we would be killing the does or giving them contraceptives of some sort. Hunting is just too profitable for the latter solution, and hunters love putting bucks with big racks on their walls so that's how it is. I've never heard of a mouse overpopulation like I've heard of deer overpopulation or cat and dog overpopulation. There are feral cats that kill the mice too. Not that I'm saying that feral cats are a good thing, I'm just saying that it's not a big problem.

""heh yeah, just saying that vegetarians/vegans aren't just scrawny weaklings.""

agreed, but some vegans are due to lack of info... ever seen moby LOL j/k

coyotes are cool, i used to have one.. they are not that big of a problem when it comes to cows.. many people build this story up... the fact is coyotes will almost never kill a cow.. they will drive them crazy sometimes, but almost never kill one.. calves are a different story.. coyotes will kill calves anytime they get the chance.. cats, chickens small dogs etc....

slewinca..

"Especially in the cases of institutionalized animal cruelty, like factory farming, fur farming "

ever been to either? videos and pics don't count...

"Ideally, there would be enough predators in the wild to control mice and rat populations. But thanks to us humans, the natural balance is all screwed up. This is pretty much the same thing as deer overpopulation."

agreed!! and it IS the same as deer but you didn't answer the question... it is already screwed up, do you agree or disagree with killing them...

"By the way, if you eat beef, you are contributing to the deaths of animals larger than mice. Coyotes, wolves, lynxes, cougars and many other large predators are killed so they won't kill the cattle. "

and for you vegetarians and vegans your diet is contributing to the deaths of ALL of those animals PLUS smaller animals like mice, moles, shrews, rabbits, raccoons, opposums, deer,skunks,birds, reptiles, etc.. so what is your point?

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teehee your funny.

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Tee hee. You're unable to spell.

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Also there are many athletes who are veggie

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That's supposed to make me quit eating meat? Didn't work too well. Athletics mean nothing here.

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I have never seen a coyote in actuality. How deprived I am.

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I haven't either. We'll be deprived together.

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Ugly little beasts. I have to see them when I drive at night.

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You have coyotes in Iowa?

I had a big ol' burger at Fuddrucker's today. Damn, was it good.

Ugly little beasts. I have to see them when I drive at night.

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Don't get me wrong, I do care about all sentient beings, because if I didn't that would be speciesist. But everyone should try to reduce animal suffering in any way they can. Especially in the cases of institutionalized animal cruelty, like factory farming, fur farming and animal testing.

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So you're willing to accept animal "cruelty" on a small scale; just not the massive operations, such as factory farms. Am I hearing you right?

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I have heard of some vegans not eating honey because they believe that bees can suffer and are mistreated in the making of honey.

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Really? How is it possible to mistreat a bee?

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Ideally, there would be enough predators in the wild to control mice and rat populations. But thanks to us humans, the natural balance is all screwed up. This is pretty much the same thing as deer overpopulation.

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Okay, but now that we have "screwed up" the natural balance, is it okay to kill rodents? In other words, how important are the lives of these animals to you? Important enough that you would allow them to overpopulate?

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By the way, if you eat beef, you are contributing to the deaths of animals larger than mice. Coyotes, wolves, lynxes, cougars and many other large predators are killed so they won't kill the cattle. Go to www.animal-rights.com and go to faq for more on this subject.

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It's good to kill coyotes if they're on a farm (eg if they're close to where people live). They're a nuisance. They yowl all night, they attack my dad's cattle, his livelihood, and they carry rabies as well. I hate the little *******s. I'd eat beef, if for no other reason, then to kill more coyotes.

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Actually meat doesn't give you much "energy," seeing as protein synthesis to carbs is extremely bad.

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I was referring to someone's previous argument that when you eat meat, you're eating pure animal muscle, which is used for energy.

Scroll down the page. You'll see it.

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So, slewinca, is it your opinion that meat eating is unethical, as the author of the article seems to imply? Also, do you believe that it is wrong to kill all animals or just certain kinds? For example, do you think it is wrong to kill mice and other rodents, or is it okay to trap them and control their populations? How do you feel about insects?

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For one, it is impossible to prevent ALL suffering. You step on bugs and don't know it,sure I try to let spiders and other bugs outside when I catch them but for other things there's very little I can do. Don't get me wrong, I do care about all sentient beings, because if I didn't that would be speciesist. But everyone should try to reduce animal suffering in any way they can. Especially in the cases of institutionalized animal cruelty, like factory farming, fur farming and animal testing. (please don't get into a discussion about whether or not animal testing is needed, that is not what this post is about) I have heard of some vegans not eating honey because they believe that bees can suffer and are mistreated in the making of honey.
Ideally, there would be enough predators in the wild to control mice and rat populations. But thanks to us humans, the natural balance is all screwed up. This is pretty much the same thing as deer overpopulation. By the way, if you eat beef, you are contributing to the deaths of animals larger than mice. Coyotes, wolves, lynxes, cougars and many other large predators are killed so they won't kill the cattle. Go to www.animal-rights.com and go to faq for more on this subject.

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true... veggie can be healthy and good for you if done correctly... on the otherside.. i don't think there is enough server space to post a list of athletes that do EAT meat.....

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heh yeah, just saying that vegetarians/vegans aren't just scrawny weaklings.

true... veggie can be healthy and good for you if done correctly... on the otherside.. i don't think there is enough server space to post a list of athletes that do EAT meat.....

Also there are many athletes who are veggie

Boyer, Jonathan, Cyclist, source: http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/sports/3645672.htm

Brock, Peter race car driver in australia is a vegan source: animal liberation NSW Australia
Burnquist, Bob, Professional Skateboarder, source: Melodia Cafe & Restaurant, url: www.cafemelodia.com

Burwash, Peter tennis World Vegetarian Congress 1996
Cahling, Andreas, Bodybuilder, source: Andreas's web page, url: http://www.andreascahling.com

Chappell, Greg Former Australian Cricketer; source: (Australian) Vegetarian & Natural Health Magazine
Cope, Simon - cyclist - Linda McCarthy gives vegetarian team ticket to ride
De Costella, Robert Marathon runner - Australian; source: Australian Veg Magazine
Earle, Robbie, Footballer, source: The Vegetarian Society (UK) leaflet

Evert, Christine former Tennis Champion source: Veg Soc
Gray, Estelle cyclist Source: A Teen's Guide to Going Vegetarian
Heidrich, Dr.Ruth Ironwoman (vegan)
Hellriegel, Thomas - Iron man (EVU)
Hepburn, Doug - World Champion Weighlifter in 1953, strongman, source: www.doughepburn.com

Holmes, Keith

Howard, Desmond
Jurek, Scott, Ultramarathon Athlete, source: http://www.citysportsmag.com/story.cfm?story_id=3409&departmentid=20

Kaat, Jim pitcher for chicago white sox source: common knowledge

Kalbermatten, Frederik professional snowboarder source: friend of mine

King, Billie Jean tennis champion Source: A Teen's Guide to Going Vegetarian
Kowalski, Killer wrestler Source: A Teen's Guide to Going Vegetarian
Kumble, Anil, cricket player, source: news paper

LaLonde, Donnie
LaRussa, Tony Manager of St. Louis Cardinals - US team Source: PETA, Animals Agenda, Animals Voice, Veg Times, others
Laumann, Silken Olympic rower Source: Cooking Television Show
Lewis, Carl
Linares, Sixto 24 Hour Trialathon source: Earthsave www.earthsave.org
Lynn, Jamie professional snowboarder source: he ate in a friends restaurant

Los Dolares Anarchist punk band source: web page www.geocities.com/losdolares

Males, Dan Australian Olympian source: daughter
Marek, Cheryl cyclist Source: A Teen's Guide to Going Vegetarian
Mihelich, Taj
Müller, Nicolas professional snowboarder source: friend of mine

Monbiot, Katherine world champion arm wrestler and nutritionist (vegan) Source: The Vegan Society UK
Moses, Ed undefeated over 400 m hurdles for more than eight years source: diet for a new america - john robbins
Müller, Jutta multiple Windsurfing World Cup Champion Source: Flutlicht 95/6/18 on Südwest 3 (German TV program)
Nava, Ricardo Torres, Athlete - Climber, source: http://www.lacavernadeplaton.com/miscelabis/entrevitorres.htm

Navratilova, Martina -- Retired Tennis Champion -- Pesto Sauce (recipe) (VegSocUK) Source: Magazine Interviews/Genesis Awards
Niewiek, Julie Ann Basketball commentator Source: Grand Rapids press/ Image Magazine
Nurmi, Paavo
Oakes, Fiona, Olympic cyclist ('92) & now marathon runner, source: I am her partner, url: www.towerhillstables.com

Osborn, Tom
Parish, Robert Center - Warriors, Celtics, Hornets, Bulls Source: Hearsay
Pearl, Bill Bodybuilder, Mr America, Mr. Universe Source: Getting Stronger by Bill Pearl, pg 399
Peeler, Anthony NBA Grizzlies basketball player Source: NBA web site profiles
Roa, Roa - Soccer Player, Argentina national team goalkeeper - source: Tabloid Bola
Rowley, Geoff professional skateboarder - vegan source: very well known, helped design a cruelty free skateboarding shoe.
Ryde, Dr David
Sanderson, Danielle


Spaeth-Herring, Debbie Georgia State power-lifter Source: A Teen's Guide to Going Vegetarian
Sumners, Rosalyn
Thomas, Jamie professional skateboarder source: very vell known; url: www.zeroskateboards.com/team_frame.html

Vaughn, Jacques
Vialli, Gianluca - Great football player - source: Newspaper "unionesarda"

Walton, Bill and two others of championship Trailblazers, basketball players source: public knowledge

Watson, Emmil - Gladiators’ athlete (UK TV)