peta is an amazing organization, they're holocaust on your plate campaign was brilliant i even wrote an article about it where the main focus was 'let's not complain about the inevitable comparison of injustice upon injustice, but rather fight it in all forms' or something to that extent. half of you sound very closed minded and i know that it is easy to be turned off by some of peta's antics, but sometimes you need to look deeper and you'll see what they're all about, basically they want to get as much attention and publicity as they can so that people just might take a second, closer look and see what they're talking about...the very real suffering plight of sentient beings. even if you dont feel particularly compassionate towards lesser beings than the almighty human, vegetarianism would solve a breadth of wider problems that you people supposedly care about...economical type problems...go and read peter singer's animal liberation or john robbins diet for a new america and then maybe you'll have a little credibility

peta is getting on my nerves...they did something else today that annoyed me...I forgot what...but they were after France about something.

what is peta

Holocaust- any widespread destruction.
Technically Peta is right that slaughter houses are a holocaust but it doesn't mean they should do it. There are still people who are alive today who have actually been through the holocaust and lost all of their family members and friends in it. Peta's just low and they need to learn where to draw the line. And even if those people weren't alive today, the ones who suffered through it, they still shouldn't be comparing the murder of animals for food to the murder of millions of women, men, and children b/c of their religion, sexual preference, etc. They say they do these types of campaigns to catch peoples attention, well maybe they should catch it in a way that isn't making a mockery of the holocaust.

collicue, good to see that you got some sense and stopped supporting PETA. good move, now you might get a chance to actually HELP animals..

however.

"However, some animals are gassed in shelters and it does hurt to suffocate so I have to disagree w/ u."

you can disagree all you want but to no avail... yes some animals are gassed in shelters, it is more cost efficient, but i was stating animals were not being burned alive at shelters as a method of euthanasia.... which still stands true.
also euthanasia by gas is not painful if done correctly because it is not simple suffocation...
have you ever been gassed at a dentist office or doctors office? did it hurt? NO it didn't because it was done correctly.. only in gas stunning is the animal subject to gas without oxygen.. in gas euthanasia(if done correctly) the animal is subjected to a mixture of gas and oxygen with the oxygen level slowly being phased out.. thus the animal is out before it suffocates/or is "poisoned".. there by not inducing pain.. in gas stunning the animal is emersed into nothing but gas, if the right chemicals and process is used once again the animal is rendered unconcious before it feels any real pain.. however if the levels are not right the animal can and will be in pain. so it is important that it be done correctly.

"Also slaughter houses are very cruel, not all of them though, some have respect."

it seems you are jumping to conclusions.. as i said before, even based on AR numbers, the number of "cruel" slaughter houses, is VERY low..

"And animals would not over run the earth if we didn't kill them, natural selection, and survival of the fittest."

well you are almost right.. actually they would over run things until sickness and disease killed them off, which by the way is a far more painful and horrible death than a bullet.. because of man killing most of the natural predators, the animals have no other way to regulate their populations other than either, Hunting or Disease.. ir you say birth control you haven't done your homework.. there has NEVER been a well funded birth control study that worked or was feasible, done anywhere period.. if the study worked (to a degree)it was not cost effective or feasible.. or it just didn't and wouldn't work..

""How come the animals aren't over running Africa.""

well in many cases they are.. and in other areas hunting is controlling it..( well aside from areas where disease controls the populations..)

just wanted you to get the real picture... good job with not supporting the wackos and liars over at PETA, now you can actually help animals... cheers....

I have to admit. I supported Peta and then stopped. I just realized that they weren't always telling the truth and I was angry that they gave little kids imitations of dead cow heads, if I had a kid and he/she got that, hell would be raised. They do go pretty far, such as saying drink beer instead of milk. Ok, if the milk isn't organic it might not contain the best stuff but what about beer destroying brain cells and ur liver grr!! Also, I would write to some organizations and once I got this letter back about how they didn't do so and so, and I choose to believe them over PETA. Wasted money on PETA but u learn. So don't support them, support an animal shelter or something. Hey or even a kid in poverty, that would be nice b/c there are a lot.
However, some animals are gassed in shelters and it does hurt to suffocate so I have to disagree w/ u. Also slaughter houses are very cruel, not all of them though, some have respect. And animals would not over run the earth if we didn't kill them, natural selection, and survival of the fittest. How come the animals aren't over running Africa. Well that's a diff story w/ the desert (sahara?) expanding which isn't good. I dunno, some orgs. are just bad and Peta happens to have gone looney. Good Luck people SMILE BRIGHTLY
-Danielle

this was not an attack on you, it was an attack on the very untrue statements you made.. you stated them as if they were facts, which they were not... please i would love to hear your lengthy response.. as far as what you "saw" that is of little worry to me.. i have been working in the animal field for as long as i could work.. i have dealt with PETA and their lies and half truths for many many years.. as far as animal planet, that really does not say much.. they show different views all the time, heck i have been on animal planet twice.. the "facts" you stated were not true, plain and simple(except for the greyhound guy) and i get sick of hearing BS claims from people who don't really know what they are talking about, they are simply repeating things they have heard.. it drives me crazy.. it is obvious that you buy into the PETA BS and that will only do you more harm than good.. heck PETA does more harm than good for animals themselves..

do a little homework on the subjects and it is NOT hard to see that PETA and other AR groups are 98% BS and 2%truth...

PETA: People for the Eating of Tasty Animals

organizations like PETA take things out of hand a lot... some of their facts arnt even true.. but some of them are things to learn from.. or things you never knew.

Tigercats 12, this is an attack on the holocaust comparison, don't turn it into a personal attack upon me. I'd give a lengthy response if it were not to deaf ears it but apparently this is all just a game to you, and not worth my time. 'LOL' Have a nice day. =]

Anyways, I wasn't speaking on things I read, they were things I saw, video clips on PETA or Animal Planet and whatnot... so it could be humane, but the pain the animals are obviously suffering makes it seem far from it.

besides, if you don't eat them, you remove all benefit the death could possibly have.

Very. Especially since I have a lot of liberal views. But also some conservative.

People (pis)**** me off. I hate all the bull(shi)****. Thats pretty much why I liked Clinton. Yeah, he was full of (shi)****, but he was up front with it. Bush hides all of his bull(shi)****. He makes you go digging for it, then when some does come up, he finds a scapegoat. Just save us some time, and tell us when you're spewing out more (shi)**** than usual.

Note: every "****" is a 4 letter word for feces.

Republicans **** me off because of all the (shi)**** that they spew. "Taz cuts for the wealthy stimulate the economy!" Bull(shi)****. We learned that with Regan. It doesn't work.
Democrats (pis)**** me off because they are such pansies. Typical debate:
D: I think this is how the law should be.
R: No. You're wrong.
D: Well, what if we put some of your viewpoint into it.
R: No. You're wrong, we're right.
D: Well, what if-
R: No.
D: Don't you want anything done?!
R: Like I care? I'll just badmouth you in the press and say that you're stalling.
D: ****(shi)

Conclusion: R wins. D has to grow some balls.

Most groups now are too politically oriented. They lose sight of what their group was based on.
Look at the NRA. Back before it was a lobby group, the NRA promoted gun safty. They sponsered classes that would allow people to learn how to properly and safly use a gun. They had competitions and promoted family involvment. Now we have Heston in charge. The NRA is now a lobbying group for the right wing. The general view is that everyone should be able to carry around an m60 or PK or whatever because it is our 2nd Amendment right. I can live with fully automatic firing being very hard to do legaly or not at all. But places like the PRK (People's Republik of Kalifornia) went too far and started banning bad looking features of guns. If I lived in the PRK, I could not buy an m1921 Tommy gun (think Godfather) because of the foregrip. Because it has a handle, it is banned. The handle can make the weapon easier to handle. But not by much. Ooooooh, it looks bad! Lets ban it! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over? If it fired on a full automatic, it could come in handy...if I felt like wasting ammo. But when I am limited to a 10 round drum mag or a 30 round stick mag, automatic is pointless. Yes, 10 round drum mag. The type of magzine capable of holding about 5 times as many, is limited to 10. Thank you *******s. Way to make things more difficult for me at a firing range!

I have a firm belief that too much of one (1) party can screw up a state, county, etc. I live in Ohio. It has been royally screwed by the Republicans. Our education sstem is in the ****(shi)ter. We prosecute people for keeping a journal...and convict them*. Our Governer is a hack. He is also a dumb (shi)****. He is also full of (shi)****. And not only did I get to meet him, I was also able to ask him some questions. He dodged them. He also can't debate worth (shi)****.
In Ohio, I live in Cuyahoga County. It has been screwed over by the Democrats. The tax system is in trouble. Taxes are the highest of all the counties. The education system is also in the ****(shi)ter.
Proposition: Democrats and Republicans switch. This way, the Republicans undo the damage the Democrats did in Cuyahoga county, and the Democrats undo the damage the Republicans did in Ohio.


Conclusions that can be drawn from this rant:

1. I am a left-of-center independent.
2. Politicians are full of ****
3. The Democrats are wusses.
4. The Republicans are *******s.
5. The PRK has been screwed over by the left wing.
6. Ohio has been screwed over by the Right Wing.
7. Don't touch my guns.
8. Taft = ****.


* A man was convicted to a 7 year term because he is a pedophile. Funny thing is, he didn't molest anyone. He kept a journal where he would write about his fantasies, and in doing so, can know ehen his urges are comming on and how to supress them. His journal was part of his therapy. It was not being sold. Somehow, someone got a hold of his journal and the man was arrested and convicted because they thought he may actually attempt to recreate his fantasy. Funny that his journal is protected by the 1st Amendment because it is not pornographic. It does have crude descriptions of child molestation and rape, but because it is part of his therepy, it is not porn. His counsil is running for Attorney General in Ohio. The man was ordered a retrial because his right to an effective counsil. In other words, his lawyer sucked, so he gets a new trial. Also, one of the man's new lawyers is a republican judge, recently appointed by Bush. His other lawyers are top-notch lawyers of the ACLU. Guess who I am not voting for,

Damn this felt good to get out. Too bad it will be censored to hell and back. @:30 am and time for sleep.

lmao Disturbed! That made my ****ing day. "For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three." I love that, that’s what we need to have. I gotta admit Disturbed; I'm beginning to like you. Kinda scary huh?

DesertEagle: No no no no no. You don't want to hurt them. You want to mess with their head. You want to make them eat meat against their will. Read more about the "Adopt a Vegetarian Plan" here: http://maddox.xmission.com/sponsor.html I am a proud sponser of a vegetarian!

It's time we come up with our own group- PUTA: People for the Unethical Testing of Animals. What the hell does PETA want? "Stop killin the chickens in a bad way!" **** them all, I'm gonna eat more meat EVERY time I see those *******es on the street. If I was a police officer, I'd sure have an assload of fun taking care of the idiots in PETA. ahhh, tasers, blunt objects, police brutality... thats what we need to see more of with PETA.

PETA makes me laugh

quote:

---

Veggielibra: u eat meat, right?
Joininsanity: yep yep
Veggielibra: y?
Joininsanity: i dunno
Joininsanity: y?
Veggielibra: just wondering
Veggielibra: did you know that meat rots in your colon?
Veggielibra: www.peta2.com
Joininsanity: o well
Joininsanity: i dont give a damn
Veggielibra: y?
Joininsanity: i dunno i just dont care
Veggielibra: did u know that KFC's dead chickens last year ALONE would circle the earth at its equator 8 and a half times?
Veggielibra: you have to care about that...
Joininsanity: not really
Joininsanity: i dont eat kfc
Veggielibra: gah..i know, but its not just KFC that kill excessively
Veggielibra: will you please take a look at that site at least?
Veggielibra: maybe not now..but when you'll seriously read it
Joininsanity: no

HE DOESNT EVEN CARE!!1

---

Ha.

Anytime someone questions them, or finds a flaw in one of their arguments on their forums, they delete the thread. Logic escapes them.

http://maddox.xmission.com/grill.html It's one of the few rants that he backs up with facts. A very good read.

Sungmina
umm you really don't have a clue as too what you are talking about, do you?

""1: how many animals are brned alive in giant ovens? (thousands of animals from shelters.) look online... Fur farm animals are often anally electrocuted to death, dissection animals are gassed to death..."""

actually no animals are burned alive in shelters..
they may be cremated but they are not burned ALIVE.. which was the question. also anal electrocution if done correctly is painless and is an approved method of euthanasia by the AVMA.. clamp electrocution however requires that the animal be sedated or unconcious before being shocked.. however they rarely use this method.. and gassing is also painless if done correctly.. in studies done by the AVMA, it shows pigs were not even aware they were being gassed at certain fatal levels of gassing.. and those levels are what is approved by the AVMA.. also gas stunning is very quick and for the most part painless to a degree. but i'm guessing you already knew all of this right? LOL

"": how many farms deny food, water, and medicine to ALL of their animals everyday of the year? racing greyhounds, premarin horses, animals bred for slaughter, animals tortured in experiments.""

UMM... you do know everything you said here is BS. right? first off it would not be in the best interest of dog racers to deny food water and vet care to the animals that make them their income.. premarin horses are not denied food water or vet care either!!(been listening to more PETA brainwashing i see..) animals for slaughter are not denied these things either, you do know they are sold by the pound right? and animals in experiments, well this is the closests you have come to even being a tiny bit correct.. the overwhelming majority of animals in labs are never tortured or in pain.. and the ones that are are given all of their needs as well as they are given painkillers, except in pain studies, but these are very very few and far between.. and very hard to have approved as well. man you have no clue.. you are sad but at least you are funny.

"? Thousands of animals are killed in front of eachother, cats are gassed in view of living cats... they are incapable of killing their friends.""

it has been proven many times that most animals are unaware that death is being caused on other animals of their species.. and even then most animals do not know with simple visual stimulation alone.. primates and a few other animals are exceptions..

""4: how many animals are only allowed to go to the bathroom once a day for only 30 seconds? Many animals don't even get to go outside, but instead leave waste under their own feet, experiment animals, animals for dissection, fur farm animals, greyhounds, premarin mares have tubes connected to their vagina up until their foal is born (constantly impregnated to keep the hormones in the urine) and then their foal is slaughtered, and the mare is pregnated again.)"""

while the first part IS true in some cases it is totally different than not being allowed to actually use the bathroom.. and it is not the norm in any of the situations you mentioned.. and everything you said about premarin mares is 100% FALSE!!!!!!!!! SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE BUT YOU DON'T SEEM TO KNOW A THING ABOUT THAT SUBJECT... GIVE IT A REST UNTIL YOU READ UP ON WHAT YOU ARE "TRYING" TO DISCUSS!

to AMC umm i hate to break it to you but several animals are omnivorous...

to vegan queen.. umm SOME male pigs are castrated, and it causes them very little pain... that is a fact, and has been proven many times in studies done by vets, who by the way know much more about it than you.

and while i think debeaking is stupid because giving chickens more room would be quite easy, it is also not painful.. they have no nerve endings in their beaks.. or did you not know that?

back to sungmina

""At most slaughterhouses, animals are NOT treated humanely, they are stunned and slaughtered alive.""

wrong again, even based on claims from AR groups, only about 3-6% of slaughter houses are inhumane..granted that is 3-6% too many but i would hardly call that most.. i'm not even going to get in to the other stuff again because it is clear that you are clueless on those subjects.. however i do agree with you that they guy who killed those greyhounds should get life..

A spokesperson for PETA once addmitted the group were communist sympathizers....hmmmm....

The life of a human is most definately worth more than that of any single animal. I do not think it is wrong to consume animals but I'm thinking past the consumption part, and to the cruelty involved. In experimentation, and the fur industry, animals aren't used to nurishment and survival. Animals are very differen't from humans, experimentation is just a bad idea, u want to know results for humans~? Experiment on humans, u can pay them, they'll come.

At most slaughterhouses, animals are NOT treated humanely, they are stunned and slaughtered alive.

For dissection, many many animals are put into gas chambers and then injected with fermaldehyde, an extremely painful and burning preservative, but most die from the gassing. Greyhounds are victims of innumerable accounts of animal cruelty, and have been left in cages to die of starvation or heat stroke. In the fur industry, many animals die of ANAL electrocution.

Greyhounds are killed for the entertainment of racing, many many animals are killed for fur, which is completely unnecessary, animals are killed for dissection, animals are killed for experimentation, animals are killed for sport, and many more are killed because careless humans brought them into the world unwanted.

There are millions, and millions of animals that have died for 'no reason.'

Last yr a man was charged guilty of animal cruelty for killing approximately 3000 greyhounds on his property in alabama. I don't even think he got life, I can understand 1 dog and 1 human life being unequal. I can understand 10 dogs, and 1 human life to be ... unequal depending on the human. However, 3000 dogs lives don't even equal the life of one, disgustingly execrable human life~? A human life that's killed 3000 healthy animals for sport~?

MAI 2 centz.

and veganqueen: I know about the pigs and the chickens also =) i was just trying to be quick~ and include animals that aren't necessarily killed for food, but for unecessary reasons.

Oh, dear. Or should I say, "deer"?

This is SO incredibly sick. ANYONE who thinks this comparison has ANY crediblity or tact has a heart of STONE.

Yes, there are places where animals are tortured. However, MOST of the animals farms do, indeed, treat the animals humanely.

Be that as it may, it is SICK and utterly DISGUSTING to compare chicken plight to the holocaust. Number one, animals and humans are NOT the same, so to even pretend that they are is ludicrous.

Secondly, humans REALLY ARE more important than animals. To say that the life of a chicken-- a CHICKEN, for pete's sake-- is as valuable as a human's is beyond disgusting; anyone who thinks that *seriously* needs an appointment in the mental health ward.

However, to go even FURTHER, and not just compare the deaths of chickens to humans, but to those that died in the holocuast is utterly out of this world. I'm hard-pressed to think of a more disgraceful thing to do to those victims and survivors of the holocuast.

However, it's to be expected from these environmentalist wackos. They TRULY believe that the world would be better off without humans-- except THEM, of course. They're different. ( See the double-standard and elitist mentality, here? )

Be that as it may, it's not something I'd get *too* overly concerend about, beyond this message board.

PETA's following is actually quite low. And why shouldn't it be? They're kooks, heh. They're so out of touch with mainstream America, it's not even funny.

Well, that's my 2 cents