Why can't we just let people believe what they want to believe without condemning them to hell? Just an idea.
I happen to not be religious. I wouldn't necessarily call myself an active non-believer, I just don't think about the matter very much one way or another. This is my reasoning and is in no way meant to persuade anyone to join in my non-belief, but if it does, that's okay too: I think largely that gods in general are manifestations of human uncertainty. I think that gods are created by men to help ease the difficulty and uncertainty and meaninglessness of life and "creation," (although 'creation' sometimes implies some distant creator, in which I vaguely believe).
Why would we want to praise a god for human achievement though? Why would we "thank god" when something good happens, negating our own input in the course of human events? Why do we thank god for good things but not damn him for bad ones?
Its a cr*p shoot, people. Life isn't meaningless, it's what you make of it. Why spend time worrying about god or gods or hell or damnation...are there really people who believe they will sit forever in heaven with the lord? One man's heaven is another man's hell, so the hell you are condemning me to will be like Club-freaking-Med for me.
If time as reality is good enough for Einstein, it's good enough for me. By what then do you measure change? I also hear people who think we all live in a computer generated matrix that just seems real. I don't beleive that either.
You are not currently in hell b/c (here's a copy/paste from my previous post):
you need to remember that you are not completely separated from God as long as you are on Earth. He gives you blessings everyday… even if you don’t attribute them to Him. He sets Satan’s limits…hell is where God lets do Satan whatever he wants, and trust me, that would be hell! So yes, hell is just where God is not…but that means that because God is not there, people will live a horrible semi-existence.
quote: God- like time, is something that you can't argue. Time exists because if it dosent, why is tomarro later than today? god exists because, if it didn't, nothing would be higher than anything else, nothing would be bigger than anything else, no living thing would be smarter or more intelligent than other living thing. God is the biggest, the highest, the smartest thing.
Have you ever heard the philosophical idea that time is merely a human construct, something our minds impose upon the universe because that's how they're structured? Besides, denying God does not deny the concept of X having more of quality A than Y does... Infinity is an abstract concept, it has no actual existence except in the mind, but 7 is still more than 2, right?
quote: now if God (God according to christianity)had appeared, in all his majesty, and said "I am God". well, you would be forced to beleive in him. God gives us just enough evidence so if we want to beleive in him ( the Christian God) we can, resonably, do so. And if we don't, we can reasonable do so as well. Hell is knowing God was everything the christians said he was, and being seperated from him. You won't be able to blaim God. You say " God, I don't want follow your rules, I don't want to recognize your existance, go away" and God says, "ok, if you really want to be seperated from me" All he is doing is giving you what you want. hell is seperation from God.
So...I'm technically in hell right now? Doesn't seem too bad to me.
Now back to the top...what if it's not God, just some guy with a really BIG sound system and a horrendous amount of egocentrism?
And what evidence? If God wants me to believe in him/her/it, he/she/it can give me incontrovertible proof. After all, according to your logic, God made me; so it would know that I would want proof; if he/she/it wants me to believe that badly (which it should, given it is supposedly completely good, and as your so-called "hell" is reportedly completely bad, it would make sense that it would not want me there), it should be willing to put up the goods.
Oh, and what rules are you talking about? "Play nice"? I try to do that anyway, so why would God punish me? Or are you talking about some other rules, the ones that had a logical basis when created, but make no sense anymore, like eating kosher? Cause why would "God" want to enforce a rule that no longer has any basis in fact?
Quote: If you do end up “hanging out with a bunch of people who feel the same way I do for all eternity” (what you believe now, not what you could hopefully believe later in life) then chances are you guys won’t still believe the same thing…something tells me that God’s absence would jolt people into realizing there is a God…but then it would be too late. Also, in heaven, we will be righteous. We will be complete in Christ. We will also be humbled, though, because of the glory of God which we will live in.
Well, despite what you think is going to happen to me, the fact is that I don't believe in heaven or hell, so I'm not too worried.
First of all, you need to remember that you are not completely separated from God as long as you are on Earth. He gives you blessings everyday… even if you don’t attribute them to Him. He sets Satan’s limits…hell is where God lets do Satan whatever he wants, and trust me, that would be hell! So yes, hell is just where God is not…but that means that because God is not there, people will live a horrible semi-existence. If you do end up “hanging out with a bunch of people who feel the same way I do for all eternity” (what you believe now, not what you could hopefully believe later in life) then chances are you guys won’t still believe the same thing…something tells me that God’s absence would jolt people into realizing there is a God…but then it would be too late. Also, in heaven, we will be righteous. We will be complete in Christ. We will also be humbled, though, because of the glory of God which we will live in.
Quote: Hell is knowing God was everything the christians said he was, and being seperated from him. You won't be able to blaim God. You say " God, I don't want follow your rules, I don't want to recognize your existance, go away" and God says, "ok, if you really want to be seperated from me" All he is doing is giving you what you want. hell is seperation from God.
Well, if that's all hell is, why is everyone so worried? If God really does exist (which I very much doubt) I'm separated from him already, and I feel fine. Hanging out with a bunch of people who feel the same way I do for all eternity doesn't seem like such a bad thing. Much better, even, than having to put up with all those self-righteous people that will be populating heaven!
Wonderous bob, your explantion of why god exists doesn't convince me that god is conscious and has opinions ( which is what many people believe god is). YOur definition of god is this thing that makes everything happen, and is the reason why we exist. This is similar to my definition of nature. But please explain to my how the thing that creates us must be feeling
Bob, what you say does not prove Gods existance, and your idea of Hell is your opinion, I do not see how saying that God must exist because if he didnt nothing would be higher than anything else proves his existance, to many an athiest no creature is greater than another. Why do you think anything has to be the superlative? You cant say that athiesm cant be true because of a dictionary definition of something.
now if God (God according to christianity)had appeared, in all his majesty, and said "I am God". well, you would be forced to beleive in him. God gives us just enough evidence so if we want to beleive in him ( the Christian God) we can, resonably, do so. And if we don't, we can reasonable do so as well. Hell is knowing God was everything the christians said he was, and being seperated from him. You won't be able to blaim God. You say " God, I don't want follow your rules, I don't want to recognize your existance, go away" and God says, "ok, if you really want to be seperated from me" All he is doing is giving you what you want. hell is seperation from God.
here is the deal- if god dosent exist, then NOTHING can be, in any way, better than ANYTHING else. I think some of you misunderstand. God does not mean an old man with a beard. God- like time, is something that you can't argue. Time exists because if it dosent, why is tomarro later than today? god exists because, if it didn't, nothing would be higher than anything else, nothing would be bigger than anything else, no living thing would be smarter or more intelligent than other living thing. God is the biggest, the highest, the smartest thing.
Personally, I believe it would be much easier if god made public appearances. You know, shook a few hands, kissed a few babies, parted a few more seas. It's not like he's giving large groups of us any holy crusades or anything. I'd like to find a holy grail, myself, but the clouds have yet to part. Until then, I'll just go on believing in everything and nothing.
I must say that my reasons for being an atheist aren't as strong as those that affirm my feministic, or animal rights and human rights sentiments. However, here goes nothing
I haven't gotten a good reason why the following isn't true. Which is why i hold on to this belief.
The same way "god" exists and wasn't created by anything , is the same as our( meaning all things in this world) entire realm exists. There is no conscious creator of existence, existence just exists.
1. Half that's already been posted. No need to post it again. 2. I dont think you wrote the other half. 3. It's not a definitional issue. If a god doesn't exist it doesn't matter what Webster's says.
I can't prove that that the christian view of God is correct, but it is quite easy to show that atheism is wrong. Atheism says there is no god. Acording to the Merriam-Mebster dictionary, the most renowned and authorative dictionary in the world, ( A NEW copy I purchased just this year) god is primarily defined as " The supreme reality" Now, who would argue that nothing is absolutely real? So, god - at least in the general sense- ,The ultimate Infinity, must exist. Atheism cannot be formulated as a positive doctrine. The Atheist, forgetting that he can do nothing but rest in sheer denial, goes on to advocate what amounts to theism, setting up an inferior god which he calls "nature" or "Force" or even "chance". god ,by definition, is the driving force of existance. So, when an atheist refers to nature or force or chance he sets them up as a god.The fact that Things are , in some way or another, better than other things means that thier must be a "best". this "best" thing is called god. Atheism, again, by definition CANNOT be true.
I can't be sure there's a God, obviously, no one really can.
But all I know is when I finish dinner and at the end of the day I say "Thanks God" because I may not be the most religious person but if there is something out there I'd rather call it "God" than "Hey you!"
I thought the whole idea of religion is to give people strength and comfort. It should be something you feel is true in your heart and something that fulfills you. If all it gives you is fear there is no point in believing at all.
The only religion I've ever felt any kind of affinity with is Buddhism. I get what sinope's saying about that. Whether I feel enough affinity with it to fully believe it is a different matter. I have spirituality but not, as yet, in a religious sense at all.
i think christians are the most close minded people on earth and will not accept any other points of views because they may be wrong and they can not handle that.
i once felt spiritually void. i found buddhism. it's all about breathing and mindfulness as well as promoting physical and mental wellbeing. eastern religons have that philosophy about em; they just appeal to me. i was brought up catholic and only got an excessive fear of being evil. the music wasn't that inspiring either. nor the whole standing sitting preaching. god isn't in a church really. well god is, but isn't god in you and me to. and animals. plants. molecules atoms. stop signs. houses. everything right? ommmmmmm. that oneness sensation, that absolute bliss of just being, and connection to ALL things.
it meets my scientific, philosophical, spiritual needs to the tee. everyday is a good day. joyfull even. so i guess i just want to know if people like the dali lama are going to burn in a lake of fire after the apocalypse (which will may be a selffufilled prophesy. they're the most common kind.). that's all.
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