Joey, I believe in A god, but not the christian god.
Why would the christian god punish unborn children? they are people too, and they do not deserve to be punished for their paren't actions! that logic is horrendous! that a god that is supposedly all loving, all powerful , and ALL forgiving would punish an unborn child is disgusting to me. I'm sorry, but small children are not to be blamed for their parent's actions.
by the way, what do you have to say about the all loving, powerful, and forgiving statement? Isn't he supposed to be those three things? and if he is those three things, why is the world continuting on in the state it is in? Why don't we have a perfect world?
Don't tell me that the DEVIL is to blame. It really bothers me when, say, someone does something wrong and by way of excuse they say something like 'The Devil made me do it.' I find it completely ridiculous that everything bad that happens in this world is caused by a 'Devil'. Why can't people take responsibility for their own actions?
I'm wiccan, so i believe in the Three-fold law. That means if i do something good or bad it comes back to me three times as powerful, so, in a nutshell, if i hurt someone i hurt myself worse, and the same for helping others. I believe this because i feel that you can make a difference in your own life by genuinely caring for others.
It seems to me that in at least what YOU beleive joey, that punishments continue through generations. when it comes down to YOUR reasoning for why there is such a spead of AIDS, then the way we can stop it is by 'God' ceasing his 'punishment' of each and every generation after those two people who made a mistake. under your arguments, THAT's why we have such an AIDS problem.
now, could you please tell me what you have to say about the three 'alls' i meantioned earlier?
"The philosophy of Atheism represents a concept of life without any metaphysical Beyond or Divine Regulator. It is the concept of an actual, real world with its liberating, expanding and beautifying possibilities, as against an unreal world, which, with its spirits, oracles, and mean contentment has kept humanity in helpless degradation." -Emma Goldman
"One thing I have no worry about is whether God exists. But it has occurred to me that God has Alzheimer's and has forgotten we exist." -Jane Wagner
This board is to post why you believe what you believe, not talk about AIDs, you ignored my whole post only picking a small quote of it. Defend why you believe in God or start a new topic.
How are Adam and Eve the first humans when christianity was the last of the major religions? If christianity is so great why was there the crusades which slaughtered men,women and children that did not convert? Why push your religion on others? How did we get different races, religions ideas all from Adam and Eve?
What is the basis for our morals? What philosophy do you believe on our morals? Or have you read any?
I only mentioned the thing about Africans because AIDS is the most widely spread disease on that continent.
And yes, children who have HIV or AIDS-infected parentes are suffering for what their parents did.
I'm not saying they will be punished, but in a way, "AIDS babies" or "crack babies" are being punished; you're right, it's not their fault, but they're suffering because of what their parents did.
God has ways to make people get back on track; don't get me wrong, but the Lord is very loving and very gracious.
But if you don't FEAR God, you're in for a world of hurt, because the Bible also tells us to FEAR God.
I don't know why people think that God is just some "pal" of theirs. He isn't just some "buddy." He's the most powerful, most jealous, yet loving God ...He's above ALL things, good and bad.
Becca, you say God can't be any of those things? For He doesn't exist if He is all those things?
Joey: You can't go saying that it's the 'Africkan's' fault for AIDs. the point is this: AIDS and HIV are still around, and not all those who have it 'deserve' it in the way you seem to be describing. There are bunches of kids out there who have it and they've never had sex in their lives- it was their parents who had it. Are you telling me that those kids are being punished for something they could not possibly help? Or that they've turned their backs on God before they were even born? I am very confused. you were saying things about Man turning his back on God and it seemed like you were saying AIDS was a punishment from god or some such thing. if I'm incorrect please disregard my above statements, but please clear that up for me.
Now I'm doubly confused. Joey, you said "God isn't just a God of love and grace." This goes against everything I've known that god is all loving, all forgiving, and all powerful. If god is every one of those things, then he can't exist as the character you've stated.
alright, I'd say more but I've gotta go do homework. heehee.
Actually Joey, just because you are married does not mean you can not get STDs and AIDs, also there are ways to prevent that such as condoms and so on so really pre-marital sex is not the problem, it is the lack of protection available to those countries, mainly in Africa.
So are things bad because God condemns them or does God condemn things because they are bad? If God is the center of our morals then praising God is hollow praise. For God to be perfect he need only not condemn his own act(s).
If you say however God that God condemns things because they are bad then he is truly not the center of morals as how are they bad before he condemns them?
So if God is all powerful and still does not stop horrible acts in the world he is still perfect as long as he does not condemn his own actions.
Bex, you say you aren't a believer, yet you say "...he doesn't much care about our prayers."
God isn't just a God of love and grace. Sure, God can solve many problems, but have you ever stopped to think about all of the wickedness, ego and sin being committed in this country and in this world?
Have you ever thought about maybe the reason God doesn't "fix" these things is because Man - not God - turned his back on Him?
You look at the AIDS epidemic and the rampant spread of STDs, yet you see the reason: pre-marital sex.
It's only an example, but maybe if you look at it through that way can you start to see.
Remember this though; the destruction of our moral and physical society is the cause of Man - and Man is naturally sinful.
Watchman said the it's the Theory of Evolution, not the fact of evolution. Actually, after a theory is repeated proven and accepted, it is a law. But you are right in saying it's just a Theory.
Proudconservative, I've found your posts rather interesting. One thing, regarding your last post: Buddhism is a polytheistic religion (for anyone who doesn't know, that means Buddhists believe in many Gods) derived from Hinduism. And, as it does not have any form of a Bible, I doubt there's a mention of Adam and Eve.
Mmmm, oh yes. Someone said something about how there had to be some similarities to Christianity and other religions. There are, of course. Actually, Islam and Christianity aren't that different. Muslims even acknowledge Christ as an important figure, but not as God/Allah's son. They are two of the newest religions based off of Judaism.
Now, in a much earlier post, there was a mention that Christians were the only religion that have a relationship with God. This is not true. Jews believe that they are God's chosen people and only they will go to Heaven (this might just be the Orthodox Jews, I'm not sure)
Finally, yes, the Bible does contridict itself. And, I think it's important to remember that you have to interpret the Bible, and the Koran and the Talmud and Torah, for that matter. Therefore, even within religions, there might be huge discrepancies.
If Adam and Eve were the first man and woman why was Christianity the last major religion to be founded? Are other religions not the same human beings or were Adam and Eve Buddhist? Did they have a son and daughter who from there had more and more kids? If that is the case how are there different races of people? Doesn't that make us all inbred which if that is the case causes severe birth defects and retardation? So the Greeks never existed as they were not Christian yet Adam and Eve were the first man and first woman.
I've never seen religion as something related to me. I appreciate it, but from the outside. When I'm in a church I feel like an intruder into a private club that I don't belong to.
I don't believe in God because I have never had any reason to believe. Also the amount of suffering there is in the world leads me to think that if he does exist, he doesn't much care about our prayers. I mean if he's all-powerful and can fix everything, why doesn't he? either he works in VERY mysterious ways, or he's a casual observer, or he doesn't exist at all this is the theory I've chosen. But who am I to say? God may or may not exist, this can't be proved either way because there's no hard evidence. We can only speculate. Personally, religion has never had much place in my life, but I respect others' faith and wouldn't try to change their beliefs.
God, being an etheral force who's composition, size, motives, or methods are completely unknown to us, and at this point are not scientifically testable, could be infinite.
With what we know about the origins of our universe, and no real idea how intangible "rules" like the laws of physics where created, it is probable that something had a hand in its creation.
I don't really apply any kind of doctrine to God, I just think that "it" is there. We could be a huge simulation where God set the rules, pushed the first domino, and set everything off. To say what would come before God, if he is finite, would be complete and utter conjecture and wouldn't mean anything. We have no evidence or supported concepts, on either side, of what happened before the absolute begining of our universe(s), so no one can offer an explanation.
I've heard a lot of arguments from people who believe in God to people who believe in evolution saying "Do you REALLY think all this happend out of no where, there was nothing then all the sudden there was something? What's more believeable, that or that we were created by God?"
I'm just a kid so I'm totally undecided right now, but for you guys that use the argument above, here's a question and don't think I'm getting cocky. I'm interested in hearing what you think about what was there before God?? Just curious and I look forward to your answers.
thanks for your reply man, I am enjoying this conversation with all of you.
Now to your points. "1. This is very much a reason to worship the Sun"
I understand how someone with no knowledge of the universe could worship the sun, but we know that the sun is no different than any other star in the galaxy. I am not proposing that nature is divine or anything like that, I am saying that the creator of our world left us clues to His existence in His creation.
2. & 3. "The reason we get warmth during the night is the atmosphere"
Correct, our atmosphere (as well as the radiation in the earth) is largely accountable for the warmth of our planet when it faces away from the sun. But don't you see, even that is rather conveniant. Only our planet has the right atmosphere for constant life. And speaking of the sun, if the earth were any closer to or farther away from the sun it could not support life.
4. We live on a planet that provides everything we need. Mankind can benefit from so many thigs from the animal kingdom, and humans can live in any environment. No other animal can get so much from the earth as we can. When I look at the earth, I just can't help but think that it resembles a house that someone built for me to live in while I was here. Complete with anything I could need.
Now, you are still evading the question. Is there a God? Is there a higher power that created anything? You still have not answered this one question which is the basis for this board. Did the universe create itself or did something create it? does a watch imply a watchmaker as Dr. Strangelove always says? or did the pieces of the watch create themselves and form into the shape of a timepiece without help?
And please, you have presented so many intellegent arguments that I have enjoyed, saying that we should ignore God because He could be watching 'friends' is seriously asinine.
quote: Have you guys ever looked at the earth that you live on? ever notice that most planets get cold when they are not facing the sun? when the sun is not hitting the moon, the darkside drops way below freezing, this is true of every planet except for Earth. There are radioactive materials in the earth that keep it warm while it is not facing the sun. I find this very conveniant. It is rather nice that everything man needs to survive is on the earth. If you look around at nature you will see that it almost seems as if the universe was made to fit mans needs.
Did you ever meet someone who did not think the earth was beutiful? A sunset is always beutiful, no matter who looks at it. No painter has ever achieved this feat. I could go on, but I am pressed for time. But how can you account for thefact that this earth seems to have been made for our needs if there is no GOD who cares about us to create it.
1. This is very much a reason to worship the sun... 2. The reason we get warmth during the night is due to the atmosphere. 3. It's not really convienient. We would never have existed in the first place without the Earth's climate. What you're suggesting is to put the cart before the horse. There is no life on other close planets because they don't have our atmosphere. Not because God doesn't like them. If God relaly liked us he might make those planets livable so we wouldnt overpopulate this place so **** much. 4. The fact we have a nice place ot live is not what I would call conclusive evidence of a higher power. Some people have shi-tty lives so they can't say God has given them all that much.
quote:And seriously, can anyone believe that the universe came from nothing, that statement denies all science facts. Something had to create what we have, and it would seem that that something cares about us enough to make the world center around our needs.
You act as though the alternative to creation is science. What if I'm agnostic and I say "screw those choices, I don't know". Creation has more faults than science, but science is equally as fun, yet still faulty.
quote: now, if there is a GOD who cares about us, doesn't it make since to follow Him? Or shall we go onliving as if He does not exist, which probably hurts his feeling, since He cares about us so much.
Actually I wouldn't presume on our relationship that much. Unless he wants me to follow him I'd just as well leave him alone. You know, give him a call every so often out of respect. But why call him during May sweeps, he could really like 'Friends' and you calling him would just ruin it. You don't have to deny him, just look for your contentment in things he has supposedly given you. You say he gave you a whole world to play and live in. Then just thank him and be on with it, if he wanted to be bothered he'd create fewer toys. Just ****in' live your own live instead of depending on him. It's not really much a divine plan when you keep asking him to change it all the time. This is how feel.
did you guys quit? you were so adamantly opoposed to the existence of God, and some of you were just curious, but now none of you are saying anything at all, did isay something wrong? what is the deal? why did you guys bail like that? -DeadWarm
Sorry i have not replied to you guys sooner, it is finals week at my college and I have not had time to say much. I don't have time to say much, but pnder this and tell me what you think.
Have you guys ever looked at the earth that you live on? ever notice that most planets get cold when they are not facing the sun? when the sun is not hitting the moon, the darkside drops way below freezing, this is true of every planet except for Earth. There are radioactive materials in the earth that keep it warm while it is not facing the sun. I find this very conveniant. It is rather nice that everything man needs to survive is on the earth. If you look around at nature you will see that it almost seems as if the universe was made to fit mans needs.
Did you ever meet someone who did not think the earth was beutiful? A sunset is always beutiful, no matter who looks at it. No painter has ever achieved this feat. I could go on, but I am pressed for time. But how can you account for thefact that this earth seems to have been made for our needs if there is no GOD who cares about us to create it.
And seriously, can anyone believe that the universe came from nothing, that statement denies all science facts. Something had to create what we have, and it would seem that that something cares about us enough to make the world center around our needs.
very conveniant.
now, if there is a GOD who cares about us, doesn't it make since to follow Him? Or shall we go onliving as if He does not exist, which probably hurts his feeling, since He cares about us so much.
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