Politically, the United States and France are close allies. And yet, after spending a year in France and now returning to school, I find that when people are made aware of this fact, they often react negatively. Reactions range from making stereotypical jokes to open hostility. I've earned the nick-name "Frenchman," and while I'm proud of the fact I speak French, I find it inaccurate at best (I was born in San Fransisco) and insulting at best.
As far as I can see, the whole anti-French trend started right around the start of the Iraq war. I'm sure you remember Freedom Fries? France refused to join our little coalition, and thus hostilities began. Now, however, 69% of the American public wants our troops in Iraq brought home. I interpret this figure as also meaning that the majority of Americans now believe the war to have been a bad idea.
Now here's where I get confused, but this is the way I see the sequence of events. First, we are attacked on September 11 by a group of Saudi Arabian terrorists. In retaliation, we attack Iraq. That's the first problem I see. Did someone in charge get the two confused? Anyway, we decide to attack Iraq, and call on other nations to aid us. France refuses, and, as I mentioned before, Americans' react negatively. A few years pass, and now, most Americans now think we shouldn't be in Iraq, just like France said from the start. So, shouldn't we apologize to them, instead of continuing to bluster on about "those spineless frogs who can't protect themselves?"
I just simply don't understand. Maybe it's because I travel more than the average kid, maybe because I'm a duel-citizen, I don't know. But, from my point of view, the whole anti-French mind-set seems idiotic and bigoted.

quote:

solid and verified intelligence.

Start running for office on a platform that includes common sense like that clpo and I think I'll be voting for you

quote:

1. statitics are lies, try again

Regardless of what the actual number is, I'd wager that the majority of Americans would like this war to be over. The number has been steadily growing since 2003 (when we allegedly won) and is inversely proportional to Bush's popularity rating. We (the citizens) may not be able anything about it until next November, but politicians often prosper from listening to the concerns of their constituency (that's a feature in both democracy and republicanism). Arrogant bullheadedness doesn't do much good.

quote:

reality frequently doesn't bother the minds of the public

Or the government...

quote:

Strong Al-Qaeda presence (proved) and intelligence that suggested that Saddam an openly hostile enemy of the US was in possesion of WMDs (not substationated, but 10 will get you 1 that said WMDs are either in Iran, Syria or at the bottom of the persian gulf)

Saddam may have been openly hostile to us, but he was probably better left in place for two reasons: he opposed al-Qaeda and similar Islamic terrorist groups (his government was strictly secular, to keep the sectarian violence between Kurds, Shiites, and Sunnis at a minimum), and he opposed Iran (because of their fundamentalist Islamic government). His regime may not have been the best thing to happen during this century, but it kept the Middle East from completely falling apart. If al-Qaeda had a presence in Iraq, it wasn't with Saddam's blessing.

As for the WMDs, I won't say anything about where they are (or were), but military action should only be taken on solid and verified intelligence. Hunches and flawed intel often lead to very, very bad military decisions. The French example with the Maginot Line is a perfect example. They figured that, since Germany had invaded France using that route during World War One, they'd do it again in World War Two. That hunch resulted in Nazis marching through Paris and cemented the French reputation (deserved or not) for losing at everything.

As for why Americans look at France so negatively, my take is that they're upset France didn't return the many favors we're perceived to have done for them in the past. We saved their country in World War Two. We tried to clean up their mess in Vietnam. And how do they repay us? By not participating in our little war in the Middle East. I don't particularly blame them, but it seems like most Americans are the judgmental type. Ironic for a primarily Christian country, isn't it?

quote:

69% of the American public wants our troops home

1. statitics are lies, try again
2. the statistic is particulerly bullshit
3. you have no idea how america works do you? perhaps if you traveled less and payed attention in your civics class...

quote:

The World War II argument is bull. France was decimated after the "Great War," and was still trying to recover by the time the Nazis invaded.

Actually that's incorrect, militarily france was rather strong, they just put all their money on the wrong horse, the maginot line. However even that doesn't matter because perception is what matters, reality frequently doesn't bother the minds of the public

quote:

I counter with the fact that Lafayette's troops in the Revolution made victory possible

Not his troops so much as his supplies. And think about history education today? how many people know that? and further more if they all did who would care beyond a historian like myself? that's over 300 years ago, in this day and age no one gives a rat's ass what you did last week much less 3 centuries ago.

Next, the US acted in the 1st Gulf War on request of the planet, no self appointed there

quote:

First, we are attacked on September 11 by a group of Saudi Arabian terrorists. In retaliation, we attack Iraq.

No we attack Afghanistan, which contains massives cells, supplies and safety points for Al-Qaeda which is an international, religous terror group. Then we move on to Iraq for two reasons. Strong Al-Qaeda presence (proved) and intelligence that suggested that Saddam an openly hostile enemy of the US was in possesion of WMDs (not substationated, but 10 will get you 1 that said WMDs are either in Iran, Syria or at the bottom of the persian gulf)

The World War II argument is bull. France was decimated after the "Great War," and was still trying to recover by the time the Nazis invaded. England used France as a buffer to take the brunt of the invasion while they could mount an organized defense, and throughout the war, France had an organized resistance movement.
I will give you Vietnam, I think they screwed up royally there, but I counter with the fact that Lafayette's troops in the Revolution made victory possible, and the French blockade of the south in the American Civil War also helped the North. As for Iraq, as I already stated, 69% of the American public wants our troops home. That would seem to suggest that the French were right in not supporting the war. I don't care how vile Saddam Husein was, he kept order in Iraq, and the United States has no right to ac as a self-appointed police force.

Actually the whole anti-france thing started in the Second World War, gained some steam in vietnam and was fed more from both gulf wars.

The "cowardly, spineless frog" definently has it roots in the second world war where the french surrendered after... a week I think. it may have been less. Then we have to go save their tails again in vietnam (origionally a french colony till the VC tossed'em out and they come running to the US for help).

Then they don't support the first gulf war, which the whole rest of the planet views as a good cause, instead throwing in with a scum bag who was hanged recently. Then they out right condem the US for combat operations in Afghanistan and Iraq after 9/11 even though militant islam is a well defined and proven threat (even in frances own backyard as recent muslim riots in france show)

So the "frogs are cowards/weakinglings/scum" actually has it's roots in many decades past and has only been reinforced by the actions of that nation's goverment in recent years.