Ok.. Now u beat me to that point of yours..

But i think after all that Japan had done to China and Korea, is stopping the Prime Minister from visiting the Yasukuni Shrine too much to ask ?

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The value that surrender is a disgrace is most found in the samurai era but not that strong during Japanese invasion. If not many would had died than surrendering themselves

The japanese troops were taught that they were samurai and that spirit (though highly perverted by the scum in charge of the army) was strong at the time of the all the fighting in WW2. Terpe beat me to this point so I'll give an example of no surrender instead. At Iwo Jima all japanese troops recieved orders to kill 10 Americans before dying themselves, after the Marines turned the tide and began to take the island many blew themselves up with hand grenades or performed banzai charges at Marine lines

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And also the kamikaze team who are ready to sacrifice themselves to kill just one more enemy

This is just another example of the desperation of the japanese high command and their perversion of bushido. A warrior must be ready to die facing the enemy but to strap explosives to ones self or to ram one's plane is an easy way out and is less honorable than being cut down by the enemy in battle like the men who performed the banzai charges were, it is even less honorable than killing one's self in the face of over whelming odds, it like all terror tactics is the tool of the weak to appear strong.

The courage and spirit of the soldiers truely need to be honoured. Many survivals of the war (Japanese) admitted that some of them actually don't want to kill those innocent civilians but were force to do so. They were given orders. It really need courage to go against your heart and kill others. And also the kamikaze team who are ready to sacrifice themselves to kill just one more enemy. So yes they are great warriors indeed.

Personal honor and duty is still a focal point to the Japanese culture today. It was especially prevalant in the military. Japanese soldiers were ordered to never surrender to an enemy. Even Japanese citizens were told to arm themselves and to kill American soldiers if they could. But to never be taken alive.

That aside, I agree with everyone else. You honor the soldier, not the cause.

War criminals should be those who ordered and planned the invasion. Such as the emperor (though he was not convicted). Yes getting resources from other country is right but using it as an excuse to start a war is wrong. Why can't they trade peacefully like other country does? Must they conquer all to safeguard all resources? That's selfish.
I do agree the view that the Japanese view themselves as a superior race of people. It was admitted by one of the soldiers that they didn't treat those chinese as human. The value that surrender is a disgrace is most found in the samurai era but not that strong during Japanese invasion. If not many would had died than surrendering themselves. But maybe they really follow orders of their General. Do u think people who surrendered should not be spared ? The Japanese do think so and thank god other countries didn't think so. If not America might have sunk the island of Japan if they continue the killing like Japan does. So Japan should be grateful. Others didn't treat them as how they treat others after they surrendered.
Wanted to share something .. When Japan invaded my country, they used bicycle instead of tanks.. Cos they wanted to move fast in the woods. It does works and they swiftly wiped through my country. One of the reason that explains why are they fast is that they take no prisoners. To them taking prisoners is time consuming as prisoners will slow them down. So they just disposed them.
Yes the soldiers did their duty well. Very well indeed. Surely the Germans pray to those excellent soldiers. But do they pray to Hitler? Cos Hitler gave the orders to rage the war .. Not those soldiers ..
It's happy to see Japan regretting the evil deeds .. But .. Do they really remorse it ?

The japenese soldiers did their duty and should be rightfully honoured, as should germans pay tribute to their fallen heroes who were excellent soldiers, no matter their governments evil intents.

who is the war criminal? the man who does as he is told, or the man who does the telling?

The japanese had diffrent military values then, they found surrender to be a disgrace, a blow like none other to one's personal honor and they looked upon those who did not die in battle as the least of humanity. That is why they treated their POWs so terribly. The reasons behind Japanese slaughter/mistreatment of civilians I think stems from their own aryanification of themselves. It was widely bealived by the japanese goverment they were a superior race of people. This thought and the need for natural resources that the islands of japan do not have is what started the war in the pacific. The need for resources have been at the root of war for millenia untold and while an unjustified war from the point of view of those under attack, It is absoulutely justified from the point of view of the conquers (not taking to account the racial superiority causes)

And just as a counter point the Japanese prime minister and hundreds of thousands of other japanese also make their way to the USS Arizona Memorial and Pearl Harbour every year to cast lotus blossoms on the water and say prayers. So while the people honor their heros they do regret the evil deeds of their nations past

Stick to the topic guys .. Should Yasukuni Shrine visit be continued ? Ampmaster thanks for the info in your thread bout the forgotten history .. U really know them well .. Yup civilians will be harmed in war but those are unintended such as bombing .. Cos bombs don't have eyes .. But the Japanese deliberately slay those civilians .. Even soldiers who have dropped their weapons are not taken as POW .. Cos they think it's a time wasting so they just finish them up !! Is that right ? U are right that in a war there are good men on any side of a conflict. It's hard to judge it but .. Please explain this to me .. Is Japan right from invading the neighbour country ? They started it right ?
The boys from your country who toss the A Bomb .. It's really hard to say .. But since Japan started the war with no rules but to slaughter, I think that's the best decision that can be made to stop this war .. If not how can that war be stopped ? But i didn't mean it's right to bomb them .. Killing should never be allowed ..
In my opinion moving the 12 class A criminals out from the shrine would be a better way as the praying of the shrine would then not be condemn by the neighbours.
And clpo13, those class A war criminals are not those who are following orders .. They were those who are giving out the orders ..
To ampmaster, i salute u for your awareness of all these past events and your knowledge ..

The common soldier is someone who just does his job. War crimes are most often committed by those simply following orders. And what makes up those crimes is often determined by the winning side.

how about the men who dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagisaki? aren't they war criminals in the eyes of the japanese? war crimes are commited on both sides of a conflict but since the winner write the history those men are lauded as heros.

The thing that many forget is that there are good men on any side of a conflict and while there were evil men fighting in the german and japanese armed forces in the second world war there were plenty of men who were there fighting for their country just like any other soldier the world over. As soon as you label the "enemy" as monsters to a man, you de-humanize them and open the door for atrocities beyond belief

However I do agree that some of the more major war criminals (like the 12 class As you mentioned) should be stricken from the shrines walls

Also in what war have civilians not been harmed? I defy you to find one example of any major conflict where a civvy has not been killed

Also don't lecture me on the denial of the japanese people I've written papers on it thanks very much (not to mention started threads, follow this link: http://boards.youthnoise.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4994004831/m/10610091 for more)

Ya their heroes.. IF they really admit that all the killings by the Japanese took place. Even til now some of them refuse to look at their past. They claim that the Nanking Massacre never took place. They deny the numerous atrocities commited. Last year a new history book "Atarashii Rekishi Kyokasho" was published and it tried to deny the claims made towards their atrocities. In a war civilians should not be harmed. But look at what have they done to those innocents people? Are these people worth calling heroes?? Such as the winner of the man-slaying competition? It should be a shame to have such 'hitokiri' (man-slayer) in the country. And surely the PM has the right to visit the shrine, but it would be better as an individual, not the highest ranking cabinet member. A more complete history book should also be publish to clear the grey parts in their history.

*Not all Japanese refuse to admit the history. Only some. My apologies if anyone feels offended.

The yasakuni shrine is the same thing for japan ans the WW2 memorial is for us (and I'm sure that some of our boys would be considered war criminals by the japs) should we really deny a people the right to honor their heros because it makes the chinks nervous?