So we had a debate in US History today and it was terrible fun so I thought I would recreate it here, where people actually know what they are talking about.

Recent events such as our involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Liberia have spurred experts everywhere (and normal blokes like us, too) to begin askind what exactly our role in the international community should be. Some say that our vast influence qualifies us as an empire, and we should stay that way, some say we are a new kind of empire- an "Empire of Democracy", and others say that we have way overstepped our boundaries on the international front. So here goes...

"The United States is and should continue to be an Empire."

Agree or Disagree? Why?

the US is not an empire. if you want to compare it to Rome thats fine, but remember how long Rome was on tope of the world and how much of the world it ruled. it'll be an extremely long time before we become Rome. another thing, this "Empire of Democracy" is crap. thats what we like to call an oxymoron or a paradox. those two wrods should never be used in conjunction with each other because they are two entirely different things. AND...one more thing, Iraq DOES have a democratic government in its country. in every city theres a council providing people with the leadership they need. granted there is no strong sense of government which would bring nationalism to the country, but things take time...i say no empire. but as soon as bush gets out of the oval office, the accusations of this accord will cease to exist.

America is fine, its no empire. Hopefully it will be in the future. When it does the world will probaly kill itself.
--ShadesOfGray

The United States is not an empire. But maybe in the future, some psychotic president who was elected, takes for granted the U.S.'s power and starts invading foreign countries and telling them what to do. The idea that the U.S. is an empire is absurd. Maybe influential but not an empire.

What do you exactly mean by so.that is an absurd reply if 'so' as you mean isn't rhetorical.

So?

bush is trying to take over the world

quote:

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Blokes? Tweet...r u British or something?

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No, Ive just watched entirely too many episodes of S Club 7.

And also the states ran Canada when Mulroney was Prime Minister.

I think the phrase world domination comes into play here. Some people should take a look at Americans in Iran prior to 1980 and see why this has caused many problem directly leading to the war in Iraq (interferance with Iranian politics, Iran rebellion and capture of US embassy, America's support of Sadam Hussein to balance the power with Iraq, Hussein's rebellion). Not to mention the postion in Saudi Arabi that made Bin Laden hate America.

ICELAND: We do control other countries, in fact we've been controlling countries in Latin America even before we became a superpower, and since the 20th century we've been involved in the Middle East as well (part of the reason for our current problems). America has a nasty habit of creating banana republics, virtual puppet states, or even aiding in the creation of dictatorships whenever it suits us. But that sort of manipulation is not imperialism, though it is sickening and completely contrary to what this nation was founded on, so I hope we've seen the last of it.

yes people seem to forget the amout of diversity we have within our borders, if we are an empire...we are an empire of the world. There is not one country who does not have one of it's own living here.

Quote:

"...(and normal blokes like us, too)..."

Blokes? Tweet...r u British or something?

ok the US isnt an empire we r simply defending ourselves. If someone attempts 2 hit u r u just gonna let them hit u? NO u would retaliate(sp?)!! That is wut America is doing...we r defending our from of government and the fact we have many different religions living together and we r able 2 function well as a society. We r not creating an empire and once the countries we occupy r free of terrorists and so on we will let them govern 4 themselves as they wish. President Bush im sure will sure of that if he is reelected...

i wish you'd talk to me more... help me! GET ONLINE.... I have writer's block i need help!

The United States is not an empire, should not be. Planet Earth is growing up, and learning to take care of the bullies. We are going in a democratic direction very quickly as a race, and there is no room for empires in our world now. Each country rules only itself and nothing more. And the U.S., while powerful, does not control any other countries and never will (who would tolerate that?). Oh yeah, and us occupying Afghanistan and Iraq is temporary, they definitely do not give us the title of Empire.

the reason I chose 'n-o' is 'cause we are living in the Last Days...you know, the ones that are few in number because this world's gonna end (but Behold! God makes everything new! next, I'm goin' to heaven woohoo!) Remember the saying, "history is important because you don't want to repeat mistakes made in the past!"? Well, Rome fell. It was the greatest. We are now the greatest. We will fall. Christians around the world pray for Americans because we have so much that we want. (even someone with just a refrigerator is richer than most in impoverished nations) But, it says in the Bible Matthew 19:24nullAnd again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Don't take our riches for granted!
Peace and God bless

Has anyone seen the movie Bowling for Columbine or any of Michael Moore's other documentaries? I don't mean to bring race into play (I'm mixed..black and white..so please don't take it wrong): butttttt, this guy is like a white Malcolm X and I admire him totally! I also found out that Marilyn Manson is more than a rock star...he said one of the most profound things in Bowling... and I'll paraphrase:: The gov't uses fear to manipulate people into consumption. It also thrives on the public's not paying attention! <TV Example> "Back to CNN Live: A bomb blasts Indonesia nightclub full of terrorists. Next story, North Korea warns of counterattack if U.S. doesn't comply. Coming up after this break, SARS is spreading all over our neighbor, Asia. Could we be next?" ==cut to commercials: buy the Lexus to look cool. Buy the mouthwash to get a kiss. Buy the acne treatment to get a girl.== "And we're back with CNN Live: yata yata yata...I try to remain professional in my usage of words, but we're all cool here. WHY THE HECK CAN'T SOMEONE ADMIT BUSH IS A FLAT OUT LIAR?! BUSH THINKS HE'S SLICK BUT I KNOW HE'S SLOPPY!!!!!!!!

“So, if we don't annex countries without their consent, what is Iraq right now, then? We didn't ask them if they would like us to invade, and now they want us to leave.”

Temporary occupation and annexation are different. Under temporary occupation, countries may be ruled by foreign powers completely but are not part of those said powers. Did we turn Iraq into the 51st state? No, for that reason we didn’t annex it.

”Plus, we don't need to be out front in our subordination of other countries, installing puppetdoms is simply a different, barely subtler form of imperialism. When we went into Afghanistan and Iraq, did we install democratic institutions? No, we have still not.”

That’s because those areas are completely chaotic and still need to be rebuilt. There are city councils being created in both Baghdad and Kabul however, so eventual democracy or at least partial democracy will exist sometime in the first half of the century.

“A supposedly democratic (though without a democratically elected president that's very questionable) internal government in no way guarentees that foreign policy will be democratic, in the latter half of the twentieth century, the United States has much more freqently sided with the group that was not democratically elected.”

That statement is all too true sadly enough, especially in regards to our treatment of Latin America over the years. With that said however, are Iraq, Afghanistan and numerous other countries states or colonies for our citizens? No, at most they’re territories, puppet states, or in some cases “Banana” republics.

”And our colonies DO rebel just as British colonies did, but they rebel against the leaders we installed in their country, not the United States itself.”

Right, but as they aren’t part of the USA or owned by us they are not our colonies. They may be manipulated by us, but we do not actually own them or seek to add them to our union. America’s government can unfortunately be a very controlling, and devious towards other nations, but it still isn’t an outright imperialist one.

So, if we don't annex countries without their consent, what is Iraq right now, then? We didn't ask them if they would like us to invade, and now they want us to leave.

Plus, we don't need to be out front in our subordination of other countries, installing puppetdoms is simply a different, barely subtler form of imperialism. When we went into Afghanistan and Iraq, did we install democratic institutions? No, we have still not. A supposedly democratic (though without a democratically elected president that's very questionable) internal government in no way guarentees that foreign policy will be democratic, in the latter half of the twentieth century, the United States has much more freqently sided with the group that was not democratically elected.

And our colonies DO rebel just as British colonies did, but they rebel against the leaders we installed in their country, not the United States itself.

This whole idea that the USA is imperialist is ridiculous. We do not tax countries without representation, we do not have colonies, and we do not annex countries without their consent. We may have created puppet states or supported dictatorships or wars out of national interests, but those aren't outright imperialist actions. Furthermore the idea of an “Empire of Democracy” is ludicrous, countries under the control of an imperialist nation have never been given the same equal rights and respect as their conquers. The closest the world has ever gotten to an “Empire of Democracy” is the former British Empire, and even in that case the British still maintained a large degree of control over their supposedly more "democratic" commonwealths or principalities. Why do you think that the USA, India and others rebelled? Because they knew that they would have no equality or political power under the British, or any other Imperialist nation for that matter.