For the most advanced scientific country in the world, America seems to hav regressed, questioning basic scientific beliefs.

I haven't completely learned everything about evolution, but from knowing the basics, I believe it is true. I mean it makes so much sense. We have physical, hard evidence that there were different looking creatures that lived on earth many years ago, but also, they look similar to the creatures that walk the earth in present time.

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For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.



you all understand that the bible is metaphorical much of the time, right?

although those needles would explain the kicking sensations during pregnancy... heh heh

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I think the whole evolution idea is complete nonsense. I mean show me some evidence to back it up. I am religious and I beleive that God made everything

Is there evidence that God made everything?

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EVOLUTION IS NOT TRUE!!!!!!!

You've tacken stupidity to a whole new level. Congratulations.


I personally agree with Darwinism. It makes more sense then God just woke up one day and said, 'I think I'll make the universe today. Then I'll make millions of different things to live on it instead of just letting them change into new things.'

I do.

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For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

you all understand that the bible is metaphorical much of the time, right?

EVOLUTION IS TRUE!

Take that. Anyway... How is it not true. Chances are you just don't understand it. No offense, but most people who don't believe it just don't understand it or some small part of it.

Denying evolution is kinda like saying "Yea... it's true that every dog I've seen has eyes but... I just don't think dogs are supposed to have eyes."

Now creation is a completely different thing. It is NOT (is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT!) a competator with evolution. They can quite easily coincide with one another. It's not as if you use scientific evidence to guide your faith anyway. And you shouldn't use faith to guide your science either. Totally seperate things so don't even bother arguing that one is right and hence the other wrong.

That's just rediculous.

Beautiful first post. Really.

EVOLUTION IS NOT TRUE!!!!!!!

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Which is more beautiful, a God who just says "Poof. Uh, yeah, you exist. I made you. I'm the man." or a God who sets off one single infinitely small point which in complexly woven dance over billions of years transforms itself into a complex universe where matter transforms into life?
Yeah, the second one is a million times more impressive and beautiful. If you're religious and you reject evolution...you know what you're saying?

yeah but that makes him impersonal, it says in the bible that God knit david together in his mothers womb, not just let it happen
Psalm 139:13-18 13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,

16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

17 How precious to [b] me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!

18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand.
When I awake,
I am still with you.

responding to earlier God made us but gave us the freewill to change

Oh, that makes perfectly good sense. Thanks, I'll read up on that. I think I'll like this Voltaire theory. Thanks.

My own ideas on free will are kind of narrow and biased as I haven't read widely on it. I just know what I read from Voltaire's stuff, but it sounded sensical to me.

Will is when you want to do something (as in the will to survive).
Free will is the idea that you can control what it is you will. Like, if a car is rushing towards you you have the will to get out of the way. You're unable to choose to want to stay put unless you have some outside mitivation (such as your child is kidnapped and in the car).

The idea that there is no free will is the idea that humans are nothing more special than other animals and are driven by instinct and learned behavior, just like other creatures.

Do you mind if I ask, and I know this is probably stupid, but finn620, what exactly is free will? I don't know and it sounds like an interesting theory. Thanks.

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The same people who wrote the bible thought the world was flat...?

There is no direct proof of that. It's been discussed on a different board, I think. Korith would know more on that.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that the Greeks knew the Earth was round. Not everyone before the Age of Enlightenment thought the world was flat. It was either because of the destruction of Alexandria Library or maybe something the ((whatever they were called that defeated the Roman empire)) people did that caused that information to be lost until ((whatever time when someone in England dug it up/thought it out/figured it out)).

I'm sure this proves little for a debate on evolution.
Look it up in the other board. Search Korith's recent posts, I think.

I believe that we have will but that it isn't free.
Think of it in this way (and I really suck at explaining it, Voltaire's Philosophical Dictionary does a far better job).

Will is what you wish to do (i.e. you're will to survive, you're will to kill yourself).
Now, you can want to do something. If someone has a knife to your throat, you probably want to run away or defend yourself. If you're lost in the woods, you probably want to find your way out or learn to survive. Or, for some reason in your life, you come to a point in which you want to kill yourself.

These are things you have the will to do.
But is that will free? If you want to kill yourself, do you want to want to kill yourself? Did you decide that's what you wish to do? No. If someone is chasing you and you run, you had the will to do so (you wanted to get away) but you never decided that's how you would react. That was instinct.

So, to paraphrase what I just said...
you can want to do something
you just can't want to want to do something.

Yeah, free will certainly is a long debate. I believe that we have free will, but i also believe that there is only one future (as opposed to multiple timelines) because even though we do things by our own will, we will in the end still always choose the same choice. Lol i know that sounds confusing but i dont know how to explain it any better. of course we cant possibly know all of the factors that go into creating the future, becasue they are infinite. lol oh shoot some one just started talking to me and I forgot what else I was going to say.....oh well. I'll finish it later.

...free will. There's room for a nice long debate right there.

To: Bushfan08. I am nice.

In general: I don't really think it just popped out of nowhere. The universe couldn't have popped out of nowhere, but I don't think the entire universe could have been created by one Being, do you? Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe and I just thought this up, that it wasn't just the Christian god that made the universe, but the gods of Hindu and Egypt, etc. all together? Their gods are as just as real to them as ours is to us. Maybe they collaborated on one big project. If you've ever read the first few chapters of the Silmirillion, JRR Tolkien (I know, really lame example) then you'd get what I mean.

I'm not saying that I believe this happened I'm just saying that there is more than one possibility. How could it all happen? And if in the beginning it was dark, how did the earth get their in the first place? If God is the Creator, who created God? Now there is a philosophical question for of you.

Anyway, thanks for the insight. I still believe in Evolution though. Yeah, and if you guys decide to flame me, remember the first paragraph is complete speculation. Oh, and ilovebush, you have every right to believe in creation just as I do evolution.

This debate has gone on in the world for so long I don't think it will ever be settled. And like someone said before, gravity is a theory, but we believe that, right? Have a happy day!

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Originally posted by ampmaster:
God created The earth but he gave us the free will to change his creations are the ultimate design mainly beacsue they can change and adapt

Okay, so what youre saying is that God created the earth, but then poeple can change that? When God created the Earth, there were no people, so it couldnt have been changed...I'm sorry ampmaster, I just dont see where youre going with this one...