Ani DiFranco once said, "All decent people, male and female, are feminists. The only people who are not feminists are those who believe that women are inherently inferior or undeserving of the respect and opportunity afforded men. Either you are a feminist or you are a sexist/misogynist. There is no box marked 'other'."

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Being a feminist means that you believe that men and women are equal human beings. Neither gender is superior.

I believe that all of those misconceptions about women (we're not as smart, not as strong, not as tough, etc) are a load of crap. I believe that society has been subtly (and not so subtly) throwing this in our faces since we've been around, and there's not much leeway. Almost all of us are confined to our gender stereotypes, and now it's entirely up to us to change that.

That's a sampling of my mental schpiel on feminism and all that jazz.

Your thoughts?

quote:

I think LBJ would be more like a modern Republican than a modern Democrat. But that's just my take.

True enough but why bring logic in to this point? If LBJ hadn't been president, had JFK he would have instituted the draft in vietnam and he's the patron saint of all things democrat.

I really, really want to see OP's response clpo's and my brand of "seperate but equal". I get this strong feeling that we are to be labeled misogynists or something along those lines by the OP's specific brand of us-or-them feminism

quote:

I was more refering to the draft in Vietnam which was started by democratic president LBJ

I think LBJ would be more like a modern Republican than a modern Democrat. But that's just my take.

And I'm with amp on the separate but equal thing. Physiologically, the people of different genders are just that: different. Socially, though, people should not be forced into different molds based solely on their gender. (i.e. men can be good at raising children, women can be good at designing buildings, etc.). We're not the same, but we can do the same stuff.

Yes, but I'm a hypocrite. =P

quote:

Is nixon really the best example?

Of a president? no. But he did end the draft in Vietnam, which is my point not the overall scuminess or lack there of for any of the mentioned presidents

any way didn't you just mention not going off topic?

quote:

this policy is ended by Nixon (a republican)

Is nixon really the best example?

quote:

Now now. Don't go changing the subject. This is a very important topic...

*sigh* yes dear, I'll be good

Now now. Don't go changing the subject. This is a very important topic...

quote:

Seperate but equal is inherantly unconstitutional.

yeah well so is the patriot act, income tax and the National Firearms Restriction of 1934

FDR, Truman and Woodrow Wilson all enacted the draft in their administrations. Those are all fairly recent Presidents. Moving forward JFK/LBJ enact the draft for the war in vietnam, this policy is ended by Nixon (a republican) Carter and Clinton don't draft any one, but neither do the bushes or reagan. So it would appear the dems use the draft far more often

Seperate but equal is inherantly unconstitutional.

quote:

I was more refering to the draft in Vietnam which was started by democratic president LBJ

LBJ doesn't count for anything. He was crazy. I put him up there with Cheney.

quote:

Not every man is stronger than every woman. It varies, and any doctor can tell you that, even if on average men have more muscle mass. Anyway, you don't need just muscles to perform "well" in the military.

Do you believe men and women should be considered equals? Neither sex is inferior or superior? Are you a feminist?

I hold that both sexes are "seperate but equal" we're different. women are equal to men, and vice-verca but women are not men and men are not women, thus comparing the two sides is rather like comparing apples and oranges. So I refuse to call myself a feminist on that regard.

Edit: Oh and I don't think that men and women should be "considerd" equals. They are no matter what one thinks about the matter. It's not something that can be considered or fought about, it's a fact that both halves of the species are equal, you can either ignore it or support it. Your choice

quote:

As of now, no democratic candidate wants to continue with this war, let alone enforce a draft.

I was more refering to the draft in Vietnam which was started by democratic president LBJ

but for this one let's go to a leading candiate. Hillary?

"Hillary Clinton declares forthrightly: "It is time to begin ending this war. … Start bringing home America's troops … within 90 days." Troops home: It sounds clear enough. But she is always careful to avoid the crucial word all. A few months ago she told an interviewer: "We have remaining vital national security interests in Iraq. … What we can do is to almost take a line sort of north of, between Baghdad and Kirkuk, and basically put our troops into that region." A senior Pentagon officer who has briefed Clinton told NPR commentator Ted Koppel that Clinton expects U.S. troops to be in Iraq when she ends her second term in 2017.

Why all these troops? We have "very real strategic national interests in this region," Clinton explains. "I will order specialized units to engage in narrow and targeted operations against al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations in the region. They will also provide security for U.S. troops and personnel and train and equip Iraqi security services to keep order and promote stability." There would be U.S. forces to protect the Kurds and "our efforts must also involve a regional recommitment to success in Afghanistan." Perhaps that's why Clinton has proposed "that we expand the Army by 80,000 troops, that we move faster to expand the Special Forces." "

So even according to vehemnt democrat hillary the war shall march on

she doesn't just want to continue the war, she's asking to expand the army to fight it with more troops.

quote:

women are now allowed in direct combat positions in the air force,

which combat roles are that? The only direct combat roles in the united states airforce are the SF which (I just checked with an Airforce PJ I know) women still aren't allowed in. Women can be combat pilots, but that's not considered a direct combat role.

List of Direct Combat Roles:
Infantry
Special Forces
Artillery
Armor
SAR

quote:

Not every man is stronger than every woman. It varies, and any doctor can tell you that

the standard for the two halves of the species (that is non-modified to be clear, a female body builder is stronger then I am, but I don't take 'roids) is that males have more natural strength. Again this is not a sign of inferiority of superiority in either half of the species, just a difference

quote:

Originally posted by ampmaster:

You need to pay attention to your dems more. They're all about the state controlling the people, so why not control things with drafts too? Hell last person to intiate a draft was a dem

As of now, no democratic candidate wants to continue with this war, let alone enforce a draft.

quote:

I direct you to Jessica Lynch as example "A" or a guy I know in the army. He's a forward artillery observer and they had a forward air control unit with them to help call in airstrikes. They had a female airman with them. She ended up curled up in a ball crying.
Go ask a recruiter about it, there's a reason for women to not be allowed in direct combat roles beyond the stereotypical "lolz womnz are teh weaker sex 1010!!"

I read some things over and I have this to tell you: women are now allowed in direct combat positions in the air force, but not the army or marines. Not to say that with this type of warfare, women aren't in danger.
There are some men who cry and leave the military, just as some women do. She didn't cry because she's a woman, she cried because that's some scary shit to go through and not anyone can do it.

quote:

and just to respond to this. Physically the female body is different from the male body on a fundamental level. Your sex, by design has less muscle mass then a male. That's not chauvinism or other crap like that. It's pure physiological fact. Ask a doctor, male or female they'll tell you the same. So in terms of pure strength/muscle mass yes the female sex is weaker. This does not make women inferior to men, just different.

Not every man is stronger than every woman. It varies, and any doctor can tell you that, even if on average men have more muscle mass. Anyway, you don't need just muscles to perform "well" in the military.

Do you believe men and women should be considered equals? Neither sex is inferior or superior? Are you a feminist?

Yea... so do I.

I still think women should be drafted...

quote:

(and will never be suggested as long as we have a Democratic president

You need to pay attention to your dems more. They're all about the state controlling the people, so why not control things with drafts too? Hell last person to intiate a draft was a dem

quote:

such as direct military combative jobs),

I direct you to Jessica Lynch as example "A" or a guy I know in the army. He's a forward artillery observer and they had a forward air control unit with them to help call in airstrikes. They had a female airman with them. She ended up curled up in a ball crying.
Go ask a recruiter about it, there's a reason for women to not be allowed in direct combat roles beyond the stereotypical "lolz womnz are teh weaker sex 1010!!"

quote:

we're not as smart, not as strong, not as tough, etc

and just to respond to this. Physically the female body is different from the male body on a fundamental level. Your sex, by design has less muscle mass then a male. That's not chauvinism or other crap like that. It's pure physiological fact. Ask a doctor, male or female they'll tell you the same. So in terms of pure strength/muscle mass yes the female sex is weaker. This does not make women inferior to men, just different.

You make a good point clpo13. Being a feminist, to me means that I feel that women are *treated* as inferior to men, and feminists don't want to make women equal to men, because we are. We want people to treat us (us being men AND women) equally. Women are still payed less than men, we're getting our repro rights taken away, we're not allowed in certain jobs (such as direct military combative jobs), there are double standards everywhere we look, etc. Of course, men face injustice as well, but it doesn't effect them as much, one would think, because they still have the notion that their sex is the superior sex, thus making them less discouraged.

Jeez, I hope that made sense.

In response to testing123- I dunno if you were talking to me, but I'll answer anyway. Do I think women should be drafted? Well, I'm against war of all kinds, but I know there are perfectly capable women out there who would gladly fight for the US. And those who won't. There are also men who would gladly fight and men who wouldn't. If the government is going to be so desperate that they'll resort to a draft, which squashes our rights to do what we want with ourselves, as well as literally force a fake sense of patriotism and will no doubt cause riots and anarchy and the like in the US, then they shouldn't lie and only take men.

That aside, I think the draft is the dumbest idea and will never be approved as long as Bush is president (and will never be suggested as long as we have a Democratic president), so there's no use wondering "what if's"

Part of being equal means women have to die if the men have to.

And for what it's worth, I hold doors open for everyone, though I do tend to linger a little longer for a lady.

Do you believe women should be drafted?

quote:

Chivalry is dead

[montypython] I'm not dead yet! [/montypython]

There's still a few of us left. Honestly it still confuses me no matter how many times I have to explained how what I learned as common courtesy and the art of the gentleman are somehow "bad"

I believe that feminism is one of the reasons Chivalry is dead. You guys are so hell bent on being treated like equals, that guys close doors in my face all the time. I'd rather be treated like a queen and not be allowed to work, vote and go to school (because work, voting and school sucks ass anyway), than be allowed those privileges and treated like any other man.