Two of my best friends have recently gone organic and have convinced me of its benefits. I have not done very much research so I cannot provide factual information for you.

The point of my post is that I wish to ask you what do you think about eating organically? Do you do it? Is it really beneficial or could it be? Etc. Open discussion about this topic! Go to town!

And, one thing I can say, eating organically has absolutely nothing to do with being vegetarian or vegan. Organically means the grass the cows ate was not at all chemically enhanced. Things like that.

I have not gone organic yet because I still live under my parents' roof and do not buy the groceries. Attempting to convince them to go organic would be a waste of time. I plan to make this change when I live on my own.

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Originally posted by toughshorty:
I do know that girls are having their periods earlier b/c of the hormones that are in meats. I got mine a year earlier then my mom did and she got it a year earlier then hers.

So far as organic foods go, my coach has stopped eating all meats and basically eats organic lettuce all day. He's lost like 50 pounds and is way healthier.

So I guess I only have anecdotal ev that it's a good thing. But mby...

Can I make a note that a womans period hits after they hit a persentage of fat, so technically with the more fatty food and a fatter population in general its not surprising that women get their period sooner. It may have very little to do with hormones in meat.

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Originally posted by DrStrangelove:
Genetically engineered crops are also extremely beneficial, but have gotten a bad name that they don't deserve.

While I agree that genetically modified crops are not necessarily inherently bad, I disagree that they don't deserve their bad name. It is not so much that the idea of changing a plant's genes is bad. In fact, cross-breeding is a technique that has been used for thousands of years by farmers to creat higher-yielding, better tasting, etc crops. Cross-breeding is genetic modification in its simplest form. However, today genetic engineering is a dangerous field, chiefly because of economics.

The problem is that multinational corporations like Monsanto have used the technology to make millions by exploiting small farmers. Instead of being more efficient, GM seeds often need more water and pesticides than non-GM seeds, and some seeds are genetically engineered to work well only with a certain type of fertilizer or pesticide, so that farmers are forced to purchase more than just the seeds. In India, as reported by PBS Frontline, Bt cotton (GM) has led to crop failure across the board for small farmers:

"In the late 1980s [...] the Green Revolution began to fall apart as the chemical fertilizers rendered soil infertile. Farmers who had once diversified risk by growing as many as 30 different crops in their fields were dependent upon just one. As the quality of the soil deteriorated, they faced zero yields and an inability to pay their debts. Three years of drought beginning in 2001 further fueled the crisis." - Frontline, Seeds of Suicide

Additionally, GM crops have hurt many small farmers who never intended to grow GM crops because the GM species cross-pollinate with native (non-GM) species. There is no way to know if the plants have cross-pollinated except DNA testing. Conpanies like Monsanto have sued more than 150 different US farmers for "patent infringement," when farmers have little control over pollination and often rely on saving seeds from one growing season to the next (to preserve selectively-bred crop types and save money). Monsanto has not been forced to take any responsibility for the fact that their products cause involuntary genetic contamination.

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Originally posted by hubbabaloo:

We don't need to wax and genetically alter things, just so they're prettier, but some alterations are very much so needed. And there's nothing wrong with altering something to make it more economical. And what's wrong with pesticides. Do you WANT bugs in your fruit?

No, I don't want bugs in my fruit (though I bet the bugs are healthier for you than pesticides...). There are, however, plenty of ways to keep pests off of crops without using chemicals. Go to your local Whole Foods Market or other store that sells organic produce. Are there bugs in the fruit? I didn't think so.

Pesticides are harmful to the environment, your health, and the health of the farmers and laborers who grow your food. The US Geological Survey has found that virtually every lake, river, and stream in the US is contaminated with chemical pesticides, harming wildlife that rely on those water sources. Hundreds of studies have investigated the effects of pesticides on health, revealing that exposure, both directly and through consumption of crops grown with pesticides, leads to higher instances of cancer, birth defects, respiratory problems, neurologic defects, memory problems, etc, especially in children.

So, yeah, I'd rather have a few bugs in my fruit than risk bearing children with birth defects or dying at an early age of brain cancer. That's not to say that 100% organic is the perfect solution. Yes, it costs more in many places, and yes, it often means that your grapes come from South Africa instead of someplace closer, which means more fossil fuel consumption. I think the best solution is buying as much locally-grown produce from small farms as you can. If you know the farmer, you can decide how you feel about their farming practices. Plus, you're supporting your local economy - literally, your neighbors. What do you think people did before airplanes and cars?

Anyway, if I didn't have a paper due in 4 hours, I'd write more. Instead, the Wikipedia article on pesticides Wikipedia - Pesticides provides a pretty good overview. Normally I wouldn't send someone off to read Wikipedia, but I checked this one out and it is surprisingly well sourced with credible academic journals, etc.

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I think that organic is good in moderation. Science has done good things for our agriculture. I really don't get the free-range meat thing. Come on, it's still just as dead.

But it is true that organic is significantly more expensive, and some people just can't afford those kinds of things.

We don't need to wax and genetically alter things, just so they're prettier, but some alterations are very much so needed. And there's nothing wrong with altering something to make it more economical. And what's wrong with pesticides. Do you WANT bugs in your fruit?

"I think that the 100% organic craze is foolish. Science has done wonders for modern agriculture, and we're working out the kinks all the time. That said, modern farming practices aren't perfect.

What I would support more is free-range or locally grown produce. Pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers are not inherently bad. Genetically engineered crops are also extremely beneficial, but have gotten a bad name that they don't deserve."

These are big topics. Firstly, referring to 100% organic as foolish is like saying that man has figured out a better system than the natural ones that govern agriculture in the first place. I don't know where to begin to disagree with this notion. I'll start with energy. Petroleum underlies modern agricultural practices. It is behind the "green revolution" that has exploded agricultural production globally and enabled the planet to continue to overpopulate at an alarming rate. The petroleum is required to run the machines that drive agribusiness, as well as to make the fertilizers that enable crops to be grown from increasingly denatured soil.

Firstly, this is completely unsustainable. Competition for the same dwindling oil supplies comes not only from other nations but from these widespread argricultural practices that are based on cheap energy. Worse yet, as oil gets more and more costly, ethanol production is being scaled up dramatically. Not only does this require lots of oil to produce corn (or other crops for ethanol production) and gain us little in terms of net energy, it also drives up the price of food (corn is now at multi decade highs) and will eventually overtax the land if we are foolish enough to overconsume ethanol the way we do oil. Do you want to drive or eat?

Secondly, it contributes to global warming and creates tremendous nitrogen runoff that enters our waterways and creates more pollution.

Thirdly, the "green revolution" has virtually done away with agricultural practices developed over thousands of years such as crop rotation. As a result, the vast majority oof topsoil is now essentially an inert vehicle into which we inject petrochemical fertilizer to produce foodstuffs. Let's just sy if our energy supplies ever get too expensive or scarce, we are going to find it very difficult both from a knowledge and a topsoild perspective to revert back to more sustainable agriculture.

How about monoculture? We have lost tremendous biodiversity through our overproduction of a few staple crops. Localized organic food production promote biodiversity as climatic differences ensure a wider variety of crops are grown. This has many benefits inlcuding reduced fuel consumption for transport, imporved topsoil, and reduced reliance on energy intense toxic petrochemical based agribusinesses.

GM foods and foods treated with pesticides also contain varied levels of nutrition as they are denatured in the process. Vitamin and mineral content ranges from 0-100% of normal levels in such foods, and as bad (but less well known) the enzyme content of these foods also suffers. Enzynes are the living part of the food and it is an incredibly important aspect of digestion in our bodies. For a good home test, buy a few organic items and a few non organic items and leave them out in your kitchen. The orgainc items (which are alive) will decompose much faster, and in extreme cases you will see denatured produce that will survive for monhts before eventually decomposing. If your a businessman this is great, if your a consumer and you give a shit about your health...not so much.

Ok, I'm tired and there's plenty here to look further into on your own. In short, organic farming practices have far reaching benefits and must be embraced on a wider scale. However, as Wal Mart and other companies are now taking organic farming mainstream on a masssive level, the more pressing immediate concern is localized agriculture. The choice will soon become an organic tomato from 3,000 miles away vs a tomato from down the road where some fertilizers were used. The ideal is organic and local. This is the only sustainable road forward and rising fuel costs will enforce this reality in the coming years.

I was just talking about this with a friend today and she told me this...so organic food may be better for your health, and the health of the animal, but MOST IMPORTANTLY its for the people of latin america. They are HUGE exports for beef, especially Argentia, and something like 90% of the corn grown is to feed the cows. WOAH! this means the people are starving because theyre feeding the cows. South American has enough problems, let's help them out where we can. www.makepovertyhistory.org

what about your health stupid?

Yeah, I was actually commenting on what DrS was saying about excess hormones from birth control in our water.

quote:

Originally posted by toughshorty:
I do know that girls are having their periods earlier b/c of the hormones that are in meats. I got mine a year earlier then my mom did and she got it a year earlier then hers.

Read what I posted two posts below you, then reconsider this. People are too quick to blame the meat and milk.

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And that is why America is the bustiest nation around.

Or it could just have to do with the fact that breasts are just fat. As the world's fattest nation, it only makes sense that it would be the chestiest...

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And that is why America is the bustiest nation around.

Not really. As a birth control pill user for years, my breasts are not huge.

I do know that girls are having their periods earlier b/c of the hormones that are in meats. I got mine a year earlier then my mom did and she got it a year earlier then hers.

So far as organic foods go, my coach has stopped eating all meats and basically eats organic lettuce all day. He's lost like 50 pounds and is way healthier.

So I guess I only have anecdotal ev that it's a good thing. But mby...

And that is why America is the bustiest nation around.

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Originally posted by CelticNewAger:
About the chemicals...I beliee what the cow ate has very little, if any effect on humans.

It's possible that bovine hormones have an effect on humans, it's true. But if anything it's very little.

You want to worry about hormones, worry about Birth Control. Birth control pills super-dose women with certain hormones, so much that they can't absorb it all. The excess gets urinated out. Our water treatment facilities aren't designed to filter that stuff out. Guess where it goes...

I think this is somewhat useless.

But it "works" because people who go organic tend to eat a more balanced diet, with more fruits and veggies. I think that has a lot to do with it.

About the chemicals...I beliee what the cow ate has very little, if any effect on humans.

My Home Ec teacher in highschool was a very concience(sp) of GM's we had to do report on it and everything. So was my socials teacher. They later ran away together and worked on a organic farm.
In my home ec class we learned alternative ways to cook that didn't involve using sugar, or eggs, and we only used organic foods. Mostly potatoes. Ever made a potatoe cake?

I like organic popcorn. That is the only "organic" food I ever really eat. It's cheaper than the popular brands of popcorn, and it doesn't come out of the microwave dripping in butter.

Aside from that...I really don't think I trust organic fruits and vegetables, and I really don't see how organic cheetos are any healthier than the normal kind...

GM crops really don't bother me that much. Neither to Organic foods. It just seems like they're different... I want to say brand-names, but that's not what I'm after... like, types, if you will. Like, having a Granny Smith apple, versus a Golden Delicious. They're basically the same thing (Food), but grown differently.

Eh. I trust researchers enough, that I'll eat GM crops, and loose no sleep over it.

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Originally posted by freedomordeath:
Awesome topic.

I'm moving to Hawaii in 2(+/-) years to work on a farm and have fun and whatnot. Organic really is so much better for your system.... And you can't beat the flavor of organic coffee. My favorite brand = White Mountain... Mmm.. (some of their stuff is naturally sweet, so you don't even need to add any of that pesky sugar-stuff!)

Sugar in coffee is poison, so a naturally sugared coffee is fucking evil.

Also have fun on the Hawaiian farm, ha. The weather's nice, but I hope you're on the big island otherwise you screwed yourself over.