You seem to be defending the position that humans are neither carnivores nor herbivores. I'm a bit confused as to what you're getting at.
Humans are omnivores. We don't have all sharp teeth because hunting is not something our ancestors did well until they invented tools. However, not all of our teeth are flat, hinting that meat-eating is something we did at least some of the time. For the longest time (before we settled down and built farms), humans were hunters and gatherers. Ancient humans did eat meat. They did it quite often, actually. Yet here humans are. Obviously, the side effects of ingesting and digesting flesh were small enough to allow the species to flourish and populate the entire planet without dying off or breaking too many bones.
Also, apes are not complete herbivores. They do occasionally consume meat (I've watched chimpanzees hunt down and eat a monkey; it was rather gruesome). They do it to supplement their normal diets of vegetation, just as humans do.
Originally posted by clpo13: If humans weren't made to eat meat, why are there certain amino acids our bodies require that can only be procured through meat?
Amp, back me up here. You're the amino acid king.
Nearly all plant eaters have fermenting vats (enlarged chambers where food sits and microbes attack it). Ruminants like cattle and deer have forward sacs derived from remodeled esophagus and stomach. Horses, rhinos, and colobine monkeys have posterior, hindgut sacs. Humans have no such specializations.
In comparison to other herbivores, humans have just as long intestines. While herbivores can have intestines 10 to 12 times the length of their bodies, humans' are 10 to 11 times the length of their bodies (our small intestine averages 22 to 30 feet in length. Human body size is measured from the top of the head to the base of the spine and averages 2 to 3 feet in length). Whereas carnivorous animals have intestines 3 to 7 times the length of their bodies. The reason for this is that these animals are literally eating decay. As soon as meat enters their bodies it is beginning to rot. Their intestinal tract is designed to get meat out of their bodies as soon as possible; so their intestines are also straighter to allow meat through. Whereas humans and other animals have very convoluted intestines. With such long and convoluted alkaline intestines, meat can stay in the human body for as much as 3 to 4 days before passing through. During this time it is decomposing and putrefying at our constant 96.8 degree of body heat. This putrefication releases and sends toxins throughout the body and is one of the major causes of colon and prostate problems.
When you compare the digestive tract of a human with that of a carnivore (say, for example, a lion) and with that of an herbivore (for example, any member of the ape family), you can see that the human digestive tract has far more in common with that of an ape than with that of a lion.
An animal that is a carnivore has long, sharp eye teeth, so that it can literally tear it's prey apart. Humans have short, blunt eye teeth, as do other herbivores, teeth that are well suited to cracking the shells of nuts, seeds etc. Carnivores have saliva that is very acidic, so that it starts breaking down that animal flesh before it's even swallowed. Herbivores have saliva that is just barely acidic, matching the normal pH of the rest of our body chemistry. In addition, carnivores have very short intestinal tracts, so that they can eliminate the animal by-products very quickly, thus reducing their exposure to the toxins in animal flesh. Humans have intestinal tracts that are about the same length, in comparison to their size, as are the intestinal tracts of herbivore animals.
Further, meat and other animal products have not only never been necessary to human health, but are injurious to human health. The process involved in digesting animal products and in eliminating the remainder takes large quantities of calcium, in order to pretty much neutralize the acids. This means that greater and greater amounts of calcium are necessary, and that calcium is frequently pulled form the stores in bones. Does that sound familiar, calcium taken from the bones? It should, it's a part of the process that causes osteoporosis.
Originally posted by clpo13: Sorry for the double post, but this just popped into my mind.
Humans are animals, too. That's a well-known biological fact. So, if PETA is for the "complete liberation" of animals, how do they get off insulting meat-eating humans? Don't we, as members of the animal kingdom, have the right to live our lives without getting any BS thrown at us by animal rights activists?
I absolutely completely agree with this statement, but don't contradict yourself. I dont personally agree with all of PETAs methods but we live in a world considered free. Freedom of speach, just as us animal rights activists get thrown BS media BOLLOCKS every day in burker king and kfc ads and what not. Just as we get thrown BS through almost every media influence, every impowered person. We're entitled to our opinions and to our say. Humans weren't made to eat meat, sure we eat it but there are distinctive characteristics about our animal bodies which show we werent. I dont beleive in insulting meat-eaters, this does not help, I believe in showing you what you are doing, giving you the facts, and hoping you in your heart will make the right choice. It's better for your body, your skin, your future, your childrens future, your world and your environment.
I'm kidding. I really find myself no more "special" than other animals, aside from the fact that I'm higher up on the food chain. Given the chance, a lion will try to eat me. Is there anything wrong with that? No, of course not. So why is there something wrong with me eating other animals?
Animals cannot understand pain. They can feel it, but they can't understand what is causing it or why. That's the differance between animals and humans.
It must be lovely to wake up in the morning and understand everything.
I'm a member of PETA2, here's my responce: Would you be treated like a pig, cow, or chicken on a factory farm? Why not? Do you think that animals feel pain? What's the difference between you and them? DON'T SAY THAT THEY'RE JUST ANIMALS! Pigs are smarter than your dog and all animals can feel pain and have feelings, emotions, cares, wants, even dreams!
PETA is not against spaying/neutering and euthanasia, to claim that is to jump to conclusions. If they have a campaign to promote spaying and neutering, then they must not be against that, right? And who's picketing animal shelters?
Slewinca, that's exactly what they said in the video. PETA representatives--even the founder--said that PETA was deadset against euthanasia. It's all in the video, along with an animal shelter picketed by PETA members.
Originally posted by Slewinca: Sorry about that, I was trying to post quickly and I didn't check that link. And I thought you guys wanted PETA's response to it, so that's why I posted it. (At least they weren't totally silent about it, right?)
What did they really post? An enflamed and angry view at someone attacking them, or a really unbiased report? Because half of that came off to me, as just being mad at Penn and Teller for using showmanship. Then it goes on to pick on the Center for Consumer Freedom, for no other reason then they provided data. After that, it shows unreliable and unfounded data, and then after that, it fails to explian the connections to ALF.
Cheated the way from fringe to elite. Clique of stylists, rounded illogic skipping a beat to a dead cert. By lheaving charges and bursting the abscess, with a forked toungue, bloated with courage and spewing self-importance. Drop your sights, aim lower, leave umblemished those with real power.
Problem. The bottom link is broken. And the Peta link, only redirects to PETA's own websites. I'm sure you can see, why that doesn't bring much credibility to me.
Sorry about that, I was trying to post quickly and I didn't check that link. And I thought you guys wanted PETA's response to it, so that's why I posted it. (At least they weren't totally silent about it, right?)
quote:
This is what I don't understand: PETA is supposedly against spaying/neutering and euthanasia, yet they perform them just the same. I'd be happier if they just came out and said it was all right so these crazy PETA supporters would stop picketing animal shelters.
PETA is not against spaying/neutering and euthanasia, to claim that is to jump to conclusions. If they have a campaign to promote spaying and neutering, then they must not be against that, right? And who's picketing animal shelters?
The CCF targets groups like PETA because they're *gasp* trying to restrict consumer freedom. Consumers should be allowed to buy whatever the hell they want, and no anti-meat, anti-smoking, or anti-whatever group can stop them. Let the consumers choose what they want and what they don't want.
quote:
Reveling in callousness, the magicians pointedly wore leather and fur on their show, atea rib roast in front of a live bull, and even lamented that they weren't allowed to slaughter a chicken on the air. Their special guest was Ted Nugent, who has chortled while replaying tapes of pigs being shot just to hear them scream again.
Hehe, I'd totally do all that. That's Penn and Teller for you. It's called stirring the pot, and it's fun.
quote:
Although PETA has no shelter facility and most of the animals PETA rescues are in very bad shape—often their delicate bodies ruined by disease or injuries—our euthanasia percentages are the same as the average for shelters statewide. We urge anyone who is concerned about this issue to join us in our campaign to promote spaying and neutering.
This is what I don't understand: PETA is supposedly against spaying/neutering and euthanasia, yet they perform them just the same. I'd be happier if they just came out and said it was all right so these crazy PETA supporters would stop picketing animal shelters.
Originally posted by Slewinca: Penn and Teller’s show about PETA, which appropriately aired on April Fools Day, certainly lived up to its name- Bullshit.
Although these illusionists are notorious for their animosity for animals, even we were surprised by the crude ways they twisted the truth beyond recognition in order to discourage people from supporting PETA’s efforts to stop cruelty to animals. We have received wonderful messages of support since the show.
Reveling in callousness, the magicians pointedly wore leather and fur on their show, atea rib roast in front of a live bull, and even lamented that they weren't allowed to slaughter a chicken on the air. Their special guest was Ted Nugent, who has chortled while replaying tapes of pigs being shot just to hear them scream again.
So, you've essentially come up with "LALALALALALALALALALALALAPENNANDTELLERARETHESUCKS", and a basic explanation of the show. Ad Nauseum part 1 struck down.
quote:
Another guest was from the Center for Consumer Freedom, a front group for industries that profit from animal exploitation, such as Outback Steakhouse, Philip Morris (nicotine experiments on animals), cattle ranchers, and logging businesses. In addition to PETA, this group targets National Public Radio, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, and anyone who warns of the health dangers of smoking and drinking. To learn more about this nasty little group of frat boys and corrupt profiteers, go to http://www.consumerdeception.com.
Uh. Kay. So you're screaming at the Center of Consumer Freedom, or essentially being an anti-thesis to supposedly "Good People". We call this debate, and the right to contend against someone else. An good arguement doesn't make for, "Oh my God! They attacked this nice people!". Why/ Because someone, somewhere, thought Hitler was a nice little boy.
Oh, and nice link. 'Cept, your link doesn't really provide much. It's simply an attack on Rick Berman.
Ad Nauseum 2, struck down.
quote:
Penn and Teller’s statements about PETA’s budget were, of course, wrong and deliberately so. They omitted figures on the thousands of animals PETA has saved, spayed and neutered, and the remarkable and often heart wrenching work that our dedicated staff does every day to help animals. As one example, our SNIP (Spay and Neuter Immediately, Please) program has sterilized more than 15,000 local dogs and cats, performing the operations for low or no cost. Our Community Animal Project (CAP) program spays and neuters an additional 500 dogs and cats per year in Franklin County, Virginia and North Carolina. To help dogs left outdoors on chains in extreme weather, each year we’ve gone into rural North Carolina and impoverished areas in Virginia and delivered, free, 300-350 sturdy custom-built doghouses.
'Cept. You have no proof of this. Show me proof, ergo outside confirmable statistics, and I'll take what you say into serious consideration. Otherwise, it's Ad Nauseum 3.
quote:
Although PETA has no shelter facility and most of the animals PETA rescues are in very bad shape—often their delicate bodies ruined by disease or injuries—our euthanasia percentages are the same as the average for shelters statewide. We urge anyone who is concerned about this issue to join us in our campaign to promote spaying and neutering.
So, you're vehemtly against Euthanasia... But you do it anyway?
Ad Nauseum 4.
quote:
PETA works through peaceful, if sometimes gimmicky means. We strictly maintain a creed of nonviolence, and do not advocate actions in which anyone, human or non-human, is injured. Shame on these cheap comics (if you can call shouting and posturing comic) for their cut and paste job, promoting their own animal-hating agenda.
He failed to explain the connections to the ALF. Sorry, but simply saying "OMG!WEPREACHNONVIOLENCE", isn't an excuse.
Problem. The bottom link is broken. And the Peta link, only redirects to PETA's own websites. I'm sure you can see, why that doesn't bring much credibility to me.
Cheated the way from fringe to elite. Clique of stylists, rounded illogic skipping a beat to a dead cert. By lheaving charges and bursting the abscess, with a forked toungue, bloated with courage and spewing self-importance. Drop your sights, aim lower, leave umblemished those with real power.
Even though I haven't seen the episode nor the show itself (I don't get Showtime and I don't think I'd be able to stand watching Penn shoot his mouth off for an hour, plus I have dial-up on a slow computer and I'm not willing to sacrifice my connection for that crap), I am familiar with the basic content of it from what I've heard from others. Plus, the message board that I'm a member of that's owned by PETA (I'll avoid posting the website so as not to launch yet another troll attack), an administrator (i.e., a person who works for PETA) posts this in response to most questions about it:
-------------------------------------
Penn and Teller’s show about PETA, which appropriately aired on April Fools Day, certainly lived up to its name- Bullshit.
Although these illusionists are notorious for their animosity for animals, even we were surprised by the crude ways they twisted the truth beyond recognition in order to discourage people from supporting PETA’s efforts to stop cruelty to animals. We have received wonderful messages of support since the show.
Reveling in callousness, the magicians pointedly wore leather and fur on their show, atea rib roast in front of a live bull, and even lamented that they weren't allowed to slaughter a chicken on the air. Their special guest was Ted Nugent, who has chortled while replaying tapes of pigs being shot just to hear them scream again.
Another guest was from the Center for Consumer Freedom, a front group for industries that profit from animal exploitation, such as Outback Steakhouse, Philip Morris (nicotine experiments on animals), cattle ranchers, and logging businesses. In addition to PETA, this group targets National Public Radio, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, and anyone who warns of the health dangers of smoking and drinking. To learn more about this nasty little group of frat boys and corrupt profiteers, go to http://www.consumerdeception.com.
Penn and Teller’s statements about PETA’s budget were, of course, wrong and deliberately so. They omitted figures on the thousands of animals PETA has saved, spayed and neutered, and the remarkable and often heart wrenching work that our dedicated staff does every day to help animals. As one example, our SNIP (Spay and Neuter Immediately, Please) program has sterilized more than 15,000 local dogs and cats, performing the operations for low or no cost. Our Community Animal Project (CAP) program spays and neuters an additional 500 dogs and cats per year in Franklin County, Virginia and North Carolina. To help dogs left outdoors on chains in extreme weather, each year we’ve gone into rural North Carolina and impoverished areas in Virginia and delivered, free, 300-350 sturdy custom-built doghouses.
Although PETA has no shelter facility and most of the animals PETA rescues are in very bad shape—often their delicate bodies ruined by disease or injuries—our euthanasia percentages are the same as the average for shelters statewide. We urge anyone who is concerned about this issue to join us in our campaign to promote spaying and neutering.
PETA works through peaceful, if sometimes gimmicky means. We strictly maintain a creed of nonviolence, and do not advocate actions in which anyone, human or non-human, is injured. Shame on these cheap comics (if you can call shouting and posturing comic) for their cut and paste job, promoting their own animal-hating agenda.
Cheated the way from fringe to elite. Clique of stylists, rounded illogic skipping a beat to a dead cert. By lheaving charges and bursting the abscess, with a forked toungue, bloated with courage and spewing self-importance. Drop your sights, aim lower, leave umblemished those with real power.
PETA and other animal rights groups have lost all credibility following recent violent outburts and attacks on animal testerts and laboritories. As a result their movement is dead in the water and good ridance.
'it's better to have your ministers inside the tent pissing out than outside, pissing in'
Sorry for the double post, but this just popped into my mind.
Humans are animals, too. That's a well-known biological fact. So, if PETA is for the "complete liberation" of animals, how do they get off insulting meat-eating humans? Don't we, as members of the animal kingdom, have the right to live our lives without getting any BS thrown at us by animal rights activists?
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