| Find, explore and network a cause. |
|
Go  |
New |
Find |
Notify |
|
Reply |
|
Admin |
New PM! |
Registered: February 20, 2008
Posts: 56
|
quote: Originally posted by EarthGoddess: quote: Alot of people don't want to face the facts, but our bodies are not geneticly evolved to handle meat.
Our ancestors have been eating meat for 2 million plus years. And now it's a problem? The problem is simply that we used to be on the move constantly, now we aren't.
The whole meat-evolution argument again. *sigh* stop making it sound like meat was the cause of our advancement and evolution. it formed a large part of it. It could also be argued that by walking upright (which would be needed for gathering of fruits and like), gave man the free use of his hands, which are in turn controlled by the brain, which helped a great deal in brain development. If you base it on meat consumption, then shouldnt true carnivores have developed superior brains as well? furthermore, it is argued that Neanderthals who relied primarily on a high meat based diet, were an evolutionary dead end - a species that became extinct about 30,000 years ago. Also, based on your reasoning, since we aren't on the move as much, shouldnt humans as a species, reduce, even stop eating meat as it is no longer required as much? perhaps the next step in the whole diet-evolution process is for humans to become vegetarian as we no longer need meat as much to survive in comparison to 2 or so million years ago?
if not you, who? if not now, when?
|
Registered: February 26, 2008
Posts: 28
|
quote: Originally posted by EarthGoddess:
Most of it either goes into the ground (usually as urine) and is naturally filtered by the soil, or it gets filtered mechanically and pumped into the ocean where it evaporates into the air and rains down again as fresh water. [Quote/]
a very simplistic version of the water cycle, and not entirely correct.
was paula commenting on the excretion of water or the usage of water in cattle production?
the high nitrogen and urea content of bovine urine does not get 'filtered', it is reabsorbed into nitrates and other elements and sits in the soil composition causing soil alkanity, as an example. combine the other residuets from the feed and hormones, you have excretion which is not natural at all to be recycled into the natural environment fully. also, alot of urine also washes into natural waterways on the way to the oceans, too. furthermore, people don't think about where the faeces ends up either (despite slight improvements in the industries)
thats good thinking...let's pollute the oceans and lakes with cattle piss so ppl can eat more hamburgers. once again meat production impacts on the environment.
[Quote] EarthGoddess:
Our ancestors have been eating meat for 2 million plus years. And now it's a problem?
umm..rephrase that..eating meat AND vegetables for 2 million years (and up to the 19th century, more vegetable matter than meat). give veggies some worth in our evolution, please.
perhaps an omnivore diet is the better diet. but, you can survive without meat, you cant survive without vegetables and fruit (yeh, i know about the eskimos, but we're not eskimos, are we?) theres also cultures in the world that have survived only on vegetables etc for thousands of years, too.
actually, it might be becoming a problem if you consider the increase in cancers, for example. (before you jump down my throat about that, more research into the correlation between diets (high in meat and dairy consumption) and health diseases, is supporting that hypothesis)
[Quote] EarthGoddess:
We shouldn't eat meat so we can live longer? REALLY? Well, guess the fuck what kiddo? NATURE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO LIVE LONGER. Nature wants you to be born, reproduce, and die, ASAP, so there can be room for others to reproduce and die.
true. but humans (thanks to science), are living longer than what nature intends us to, and She is pissed (hence, the increase in humans in western societies suffering from more ailments despite their high standard of living and diet). |
Registered: January 15, 2003
Posts: 3689
|
quote: Originally posted by paulachanga91:
The average american uses somewhere in the low hundreds of gallons of water daily. As soon as you eat a single hamburger, that number goes up by thousands of gallons.
So? Where the hell do you think water goes when we use it? Jupiter? Most of it either goes into the ground (usually as urine) and is naturally filtered by the soil, or it gets filtered mechanically and pumped into the ocean where it evaporates into the air and rains down again as fresh water. As long as the oceans exist and the water cycle continues to work, we're never going to have a shortage of water. When you really think about it, we're all drinking the urine of every animal that ever existed.  quote: Alot of people don't want to face the facts, but our bodies are not geneticly evolved to handle meat.
Our ancestors have been eating meat for 2 million plus years. And now it's a problem? The problem is simply that we used to be on the move constantly, now we aren't. We shouldn't eat meat so we can live longer? REALLY? Well, guess the fuck what kiddo? NATURE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO LIVE LONGER. Nature wants you to be born, reproduce, and die, ASAP, so there can be room for others to reproduce and die.
|
Registered: March 07, 2008
Posts: 3
|
I'm sorry to butt into this conversation but I just couldn't help myself. It almost made me laugh a little when people were saying vegetarians aren't doing enough because we don't grow our own vegetables. Are you freaking kidding me? The average american uses somewhere in the low hundreds of gallons of water daily. As soon as you eat a single hamburger, that number goes up by thousands of gallons. The grain used to feed farm animals could be used to solve world hunger. We are destroying our forests that have been around for centries in decades because of grazing. If everyone stopped eating meat, that would be more powerful in itself than taking all the cars off the roads and all of the other harmful energy sources put together! The meat industry is destroying our plante. FACE IT!! Alot of people don't want to face the facts, but our bodies are not geneticly evolved to handle meat. Do you see sharp tearing canine teeth in our mouths and shreading claws on our hands? We couldn't catch an animal and kill it if we tried without tools and knowledge. And most of all our bodies are being ruined from the harmful cholesterol and the cancer causing animal protein! Our bodies have trouble consuming so much animal protein. The amount of needed cholesterol for the human body is ZERO!!. Our stomach acid is not as strong as that in carnivores and omnivores. Plus we process food muchhhh slower than meat eaters. It takes us over 24 hours to process a meal. Meat eaters are in and out with the toxins in meat within 4 hours. Therefore the meat rots in our intestines and the lack of fiber causes colin cancer. People are blind and brainwashed into thinking you will somehow be protein deficient and unhealthy wihtout meat. The only thing that we can't get from a vegetarian diet that we can with meat is vitamin b-12 and the reason for that is that it is found in organic veggies. It is actually in the soil. So all you truely need with a vegetarian diet is a simple b vitamin and your all set to live a healthier life! Sorry I wrote so much, but I am very opinionated when it comes to saving lives, animals, and the earth!
|
Registered: February 20, 2008
Posts: 56
|
there is so much evidence available that contradicts the whole humans are "omnivores" reason..cant u nogs cone up with other reasons? oh btw...u wont have a problem with me citing the evidence? since you're all for going out and getting it yourself jibe? *yawn* next?
if not you, who? if not now, when?
|
Registered: January 15, 2003
Posts: 3689
|
quote: Originally posted by anneke:
quote EarthGoddess:
".... despite being around sick people all the time (most of them vegetarians surprisingly, one even had the stomach flu which was really funny)"
That just reflects more to do with the idiotic vegetarians who most probably socialise with, considering your failure at it...its more to do with them not taking proper care of themselves, rather than their diet choice.
Being an ex meatie i use to fall ill all the time, now i dont. and i know alot of meaties that do fall ill quite alot, more than the vegies I know..so whats ur point? its all individualistic
based on ur logic, then ppl will also be able to survive on a non meat diet as well..it'll just take time. tit for tat, i say.
I knoooooow that. Humans are Omnivores. We can eat anything and be healthy as long as we exercise. You can be a Skittlarian and eat nothing but Skittles if you wanted to, as long as you take supplements and burn off that extra energy. Like I said before, I'm NOT against the vegetarian diet. It's a great diet. I just hate vegetarians...
|
Registered: February 20, 2008
Posts: 56
|
quote EarthGoddess: ".... despite being around sick people all the time (most of them vegetarians surprisingly, one even had the stomach flu which was really funny)" That just reflects more to do with the idiotic vegetarians who most probably socialise with, considering your failure at it...its more to do with them not taking proper care of themselves, rather than their diet choice. Being an ex meatie i use to fall ill all the time, now i dont. and i know alot of meaties that do fall ill quite alot, more than the vegies I know..so whats ur point? its all individualistic based on ur logic, then ppl will also be able to survive on a non meat diet as well..it'll just take time. tit for tat, i say. duh! drying is a preservation process, i just added the spice thing cos know doubt some smart ass would have raised it. quote: "By the way, I read more than I watch TV." I dont think the TV magazine counts  quote: "Yes, it is. The way I cook it, I sear it on both sides for a few seconds, so it's still raw in the middle. That's some good eatin' right there.' i like to do the same with my tempeh.
if not you, who? if not now, when?
|
Registered: January 15, 2003
Posts: 3689
|
quote: Originally posted by anneke:
quote EarthGoddess:
And yeh, the human body can adapt...over MANY generations and years, but for a person to adapt in a single lifetime...unlikely.
Yes likely. The body simply creates more antibodies. quote:
Stop it with the Eskimos. point taken, but they are a very small group that have adapted over time, whereas you meaties havent adapted to eat raw meat..plain and simple. you're not an eskimo, so stop using that defence.
I brought up the Eskimos again because someone else said humans can't eat raw meat, but I'm not surprised you'd use that as fuel to attack me again, considering you love me so much. Anyway, if Indigenous people from all over the world, not just Eskimos, can eat raw meat, that's proof enough that everyone else can if they wanted to. Of course we would get sick at first, but over time our bodies can and will adapt. This is exactly why I haven't been sick in many years despite being around sick people all the time (most of them vegetarians surprisingly, one even had the stomach flu which was really funny). quote:
Actually, thats where your tv watching ass didnt correctly inform you, we started cooking meat (and with spices) for preservation reasons, not bc it tasted nice...that came after.
Wrong. We started drying meat in the sun for preservation purposes. Without freezers or fridges, cooked meat doesn't last longer than raw meat. By the way, I read more than I watch TV. quote:
duh! rare is not raw, is it?
Yes, it is. The way I cook it, I sear it on both sides for a few seconds, so it's still raw in the middle. That's some good eatin' right there.
|
Registered: February 20, 2008
Posts: 56
|
quote EarthGoddess: "Obviously, it can be eaten raw. Like all meat." Im not denying that you can't, but as the human body as it is of today, if you replace the amount of cooked meat eaten by the average person, with raw, then there'd be alot of sick, perhaps dead ppl. (then again, not a bad thing if it means less of you lot) furthermore, the point was in response to someone claiming that chicken doesnt have salmonella, but it does. And yeh, the human body can adapt...over MANY generations and years, but for a person to adapt in a single lifetime...unlikely. Stop it with the Eskimos. point taken, but they are a very small group that have adapted over time, whereas you meaties havent adapted to eat raw meat..plain and simple. you're not an eskimo, so stop using that defence. quote: "We started cooking meat, because it tasted better. That simple." Actually, thats where your tv watching ass didnt correctly inform you, we started cooking meat (and with spices) for preservation reasons, not bc it tasted nice...that came after. quoting bushsupporter: "I eat my steaks rare. They taste GREAT!" duh! rare is not raw, is it? i use to eat my steaks 'blue' and throw in a couple of raw sausages, too, but there is no way i'd replace cooked meat with raw. try going into Maccas for a raw burger, or KFC for raw hot and spicy..there's a reason why it is illegal to serve raw meat. then again, if all the meaties ate raw meat and fall ill, perhaps perish, thats a good thing...you have my vote about the 3 bacon rashers. just make them raw while at it..we need the population control.
if not you, who? if not now, when?
|
Registered: September 19, 2001
Posts: 2202
|
quote: Originally posted by notsojoey:
It should be a Federal law that everyone must eat three slices of bacon before 9am EST.
I would support that bill.
"Freedom is not Free"-Korean War Memorial, Washington DC.
|
Registered: May 31, 2004
Posts: 429
|
It should be a Federal law that everyone must eat three slices of bacon before 9am EST.
"I call them like I see them any my visision is always 20/20" - notsojoey
|
Registered: January 15, 2003
Posts: 3689
|
quote: Originally posted by Bushsupporter: quote: Originally posted by alfred:
wife swap? great show i also saw a chick on there that claimed to get food from the sunlight too, so if its on tv it has to be true
do u get all ur ideas from shit tv shows
yeah we can eat meat raw, but we'd be sick and itd take a loooong time for our bodys to adjust plus it just dont taste as nice.
actually i dont think we can cos isnt that y we started bbqing our meat to start with?
I eat my steaks rare. They taste GREAT!
Hell Yeah!
|
Registered: January 15, 2003
Posts: 3689
|
quote: Originally posted by alfred:
wife swap? great show i also saw a chick on there that claimed to get food from the sunlight too, so if its on tv it has to be true
do u get all ur ideas from shit tv shows
I believe it because I saw her cut up a chicken and put chicken flesh into her mouth, chew and swallow. As stupid as that show is, you can't argue with a person putting chicken flesh into their mouth. quote: yeah we can eat meat raw, but we'd be sick and itd take a loooong time for our bodys to adjust plus it just dont taste as nice.
It doesn't long for your body to build up the antibodies needed to attack the nasties in meat. quote: actually i dont think we can cos isnt that y we started bbqing our meat to start with?
I'm starting to feel like a broken record... NATIVE ALASKANS EAT RAW AND ROTTEN MEAT AND DON'T GET SICK. Obviously, they are human, therefore we can. We started cooking meat, because it tasted better. That simple.
|
Registered: September 19, 2001
Posts: 2202
|
quote: Originally posted by alfred:
wife swap? great show i also saw a chick on there that claimed to get food from the sunlight too, so if its on tv it has to be true
do u get all ur ideas from shit tv shows
yeah we can eat meat raw, but we'd be sick and itd take a loooong time for our bodys to adjust plus it just dont taste as nice.
actually i dont think we can cos isnt that y we started bbqing our meat to start with?
I eat my steaks rare. They taste GREAT!
"Freedom is not Free"-Korean War Memorial, Washington DC.
|
Registered: February 18, 2008
Posts: 5
|
wife swap? great show i also saw a chick on there that claimed to get food from the sunlight too, so if its on tv it has to be true
do u get all ur ideas from shit tv shows
yeah we can eat meat raw, but we'd be sick and itd take a loooong time for our bodys to adjust plus it just dont taste as nice.
actually i dont think we can cos isnt that y we started bbqing our meat to start with?
|
Registered: January 15, 2003
Posts: 3689
|
quote: Originally posted by anneke:
Quote EarthGoddess:
"MY point is that I find it interesting how vegetarians attack people for having a negative impact on the environment when at the same time the vast majority of them refuse to grow their own food because it's too inconvenient. Saving the planet is all well and good, until it gets to be an inconvenience to your schedule?"
Not all vegetarians do that, just like not all pro-meat eaters are self rightoues, selfish a**holes. Maybe pro meaties feel attacked because to some degree the vegetarians/vegans (vegies), are having less of an impact than the meaties and the meaties know this.
Meaties don't care. Meaties know that if the planet is "destroyed", Humans will be extinct. Extinction of humans = The Earth can get back to it's "natural/normal" state. Therefore, meaties are speeding up that process and are doing exactly what nature needs.  quote: And you reinforcing vegies needing to grow their own vegetables, why dont you meaties go and raise your own animals?
I totally will. quote: yes, chicken does. as a veterinarian who has worked within the livestock and meat industry, all chicken contains degrees of salmonella (campylobacter) and predominantly -Clostridium perfringens , thats why it cant be consumed raw.
I watched a raw foodist family on Wife Swap eating raw chicken like it was popcorn (Chicken they raised themselves). Obviously, it can be eaten raw. Like all meat. If a person is raised on raw meat, their bodies become immune to the pathogens in the meat. The human immune system is more efficient than any antibiotic. It's there for a reason, put it to good use.
|
Registered: February 20, 2008
Posts: 56
|
"all chicken contains degrees of salmonella (campylobacter)" before anyone misreads this statement, I meant in simple terms (as I can go into detail, but general meaning would be lost), with the campylobacter bacterium, there are many strains, and a very adaptable bacterium that is known for its resistance qualities, and as such there is always a strain evident in all chicken flesh (and eggs, btw) considering the intensive unnatural broiler conditions of todays modern "farms", the campylobacter bacterium is always a threat and we're always trying to find antibiotics to counter. why is it a threat? not only because of its resistive ability, but because the conditions of broiler systems are perfect for this particular bacterium. Improve farming conditions and it'll minimise the risk, but lets use antibiotics instead, and the meat eating public remain ignorant. (Ive seen this sentiment within the meat production sector) just because there hasnt been a recall as "yet" dont be too blaise about it. between meat and vegetables, meat production is more of a serious threat of contamination and at such large scale. there'll be more meat recalls in the future than vegetablesThis is evident in the outbreaks in the past 20 years. I know theres only been 2, but thats enough of a wake up call.
if not you, who? if not now, when?
|
Registered: February 20, 2008
Posts: 56
|
Quote EarthGoddess: "MY point is that I find it interesting how vegetarians attack people for having a negative impact on the environment when at the same time the vast majority of them refuse to grow their own food because it's too inconvenient. Saving the planet is all well and good, until it gets to be an inconvenience to your schedule?" Not all vegetarians do that, just like not all pro-meat eaters are self rightoues, selfish a**holes. Maybe pro meaties feel attacked because to some degree the vegetarians/vegans (vegies), are having less of an impact than the meaties and the meaties know this. So what if they dont grow their own vegetables, at least by not eating meat that has been factory farmed, they are reducing their impact...whereas those that do eat meat are having more of a negatie impact. Isnt that the point of being environmentally aware? REDUCING your impact? Yeah, some, if not most vegies need to do more..but it doesnt negate the fact that whatever degree vegies are doing/not doing its hell of alot more than the majority of meaties. And you reinforcing vegies needing to grow their own vegetables, why dont you meaties go and raise your own animals? or is that too inconvenient? quite bushsupporter: "All chicken flesh does not have ecoli and salmonela." yes, chicken does. as a veterinarian who has worked within the livestock and meat industry, all chicken contains degrees of salmonella (campylobacter) and predominantly -Clostridium perfringens , thats why it cant be consumed raw. salmonella is also so easy to catch there has not been a big recall as of yet because the use of antibiotics to curb the strains, which are continually showing resistance patterns anyway. want to know what else has been found in chicken and are increasing resistance to antibiotics? Clostridium perfringens and enterococci. nasty buggers
if not you, who? if not now, when?
|
Registered: January 15, 2003
Posts: 3689
|
quote: Originally posted by anneke: EarthGoddess quote: "Yes, but she could do even more if she grew her own food. Or is that too inconvenient?" Hello? My point was that she is most probably doing more than you in minimising impact. It was a qualitative statement about how much she does in comparison.. learn to read
I can read. However, MY point is that I find it interesting how vegetarians attack people for having a negative impact on the environment when at the same time the vast majority of them refuse to grow their own food because it's too inconvenient. Saving the planet is all well and good, until it gets to be an inconvenience to your schedule? Peculiar indeed. | |
