I became a vegetarian for one reason only... animal rights. I strongly disagree with the killing of innocent animals to benefit ourselves, however, I think that vegans may be taking things a bit too far. I mean, if the animal is not being harmed, then why fret about it? I have nothing against vegans, in fact, my favourite musician of all time is a vegan, I just don't think that cutting absolutly everything related to animals out of your diet is necessary.

Please state your opinion.

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we can eat meat, but we are actually designed to eat vegetables, fruits and grains.

This is untrue. Our bodies evolved, not designed, to eat food from all sources. Vegetable, fruit, nuts, meat are all digestible to humans. This does not mean we can eat every vegetable, as some will make us very sick, where some animals can easily digest it. We can't eat every fruit either, same goes for nuts and meat.

The most healthy diet is one that includes food from all sources. This does include meat, fruit, and vegetables. In the american diet, we can stand to eat less meat and more vegetables. However, we should not be excluding meat. Meat is an excellent source of protein. Meat is easily digested, more readily than vegetables, but vegetables also are a excellent source of vitamins and minerals. Milk is a excellent source of calcium. Yes, you can get these things from eating tofu or what have you. Meat also contains vitamins and minerals, but to a lesser degree than vegetables.

A healthy diet can include meat.

There have been numerous experiments conducted with plants and whether they have an awareness on some basic level.

A galvonic skin response unit is hooked up to the leaves of a plant. Another plant of the same family is tortured, such as slicing the leaf, and the first plant responds. Even bacteria cultures have been tested. Yogurt bacteria was the subject of the experiment, another culture was given milk, something they feed on quite well, and the other bacteria reacted as if they could sense that the other culture was given nutrition.

This does not go to say that they have intelligence, but that they have an awareness of the environment they're in and can "feel" pain, hunger, etc. It is a living, breathing, and procreating being. So you vegetarians and vegans are committing vegecide.

by they way, I could easily watch a cow being slaughtered in front of me and I would have no problem picking up a hamburger immediately afterward.

Vegetarians, and vegans in particular, all seem to have a "holier than thou" attitude about it all. They seem to believe they are above those who eat meat. Don't they know that they're looked upon with a certain stigma?

Oh, and your boycott or stance against the slaughter of animals isn't doing anything to sway the practice. Yes, I'd like to see a more humane way to slaughter animals, and vegetables. Until someone can come up with a good alternative, there will continue to be messy practices.

If dog were a normal food source, not the family pet we've adapted them to be, I wouldn't have any problem eating them. I eat rabbit, and rabbits are cute when they have their fur and skin on, but cook the meat in a stew and they are very yummy.

Teeth. Our teeth have evolved to include a diet from various food sources. They suggest an omniverous (sp) diet. We are capable of masticating vegetables, fruits, and animal products. Sharp teeth for tearing and blunt teeth for chewing.

Digestion. Herbivores have specialized digestive tracts. Cows have a four chambered stomach. Rabbits have a sack, kinda like a two chambered stomach. Vegetables take more time to digest than does meat. To get the full benefit from vegetables it needs to ferment and break down over time and herbiverous animals have a specialized digestive system to promote such a diet. Carnivores have specialized digestion as well. They have an immune system which helps to fend off disease (not all diseases) that is carried through animal flesh. Humans do not. Our digestive system is not suitable to support either diet exclusively. Rather, our system has evolved to gain benefit from a varied diet. We do not fully gain the benefit from any of our food sources. Our bodies can absorb nutrients from each food source.

History. Nomadic tribes eat both animal and vegetable. Nowhere in history does it show that human tribes have ever been exclusively vegetarian nor carnivores. We are opportunistic feeders, eating whatever is available. I am not drawing any examples from the animal kingdom. We are hunters and gatherers.

Farms. If the world's population were to stop eating meat, farms would not be able to grow enough plant material to feed everyone. It takes much more plant material to get all the vitamins, minerals, and proteins we need to survive than what we derive from eating meat. We should have a balance diet which includes food from all sources, not just one.

American diet. The american diet is a very unhealthy one. There is way too much fatty and salty food. The fat kids have a poor diet, made up of mainly fast food. Even if they were to cut out eating meat at a fast food restaurant, french fries are loaded with fat and salt. Not at all healthy. There is nothing wrong with having salad with a meal which includes a meat choice. It's called moderation. Nothing is bad for you if it's done in moderation. Too much of one particular thing can cause health to diminish. I am not saying that a vegetarian diet is unhealthy, but it needs to be carefully balanced to maintain good health. In my opinion, eating a balanced diet of meat and vegetables works best.

I love eating meat. I also love many vegetables and fruits. I am not about to exclusively eat vegetables and fruit, nor am I about to exclusively eat meat. I know neither diet is truly healthy. I will remain eating a varied and balanced diet. No amount of persuasion will ever change that fact. I agree that animals are slaughtered rather cruelly, but some are actually slaughtered as humanely as possible too. I don't agree with caging up animals to make production of meat and byproducts. I don't agree with farming vegetables in the way it's done either. Vegetables are also penned and grown in tight quarters. Vegetables are alive and are harvested in what could be considered a cruel way. Pull the carrot from the soil, chop the lettuce from it's root, rend an apple from it's branch. It's no less cruel than chopping the head off a chicken.

We are the only creatures who drink milk long after our infant stage. We also are the only animals that need the calcium throughout our lifespan. Milk is a very good source of calcium Meat is a very good source of proteins. Vegetables are high in vitamins and minerals. We need iron, but we can't eat iron ore. Well, maybe we could, but it's difficult to digest, hard to chew, and worse to pass.

Just eat smart and healthy. A proper and balanced diet which includes all food groups is the best way for our bodies to grow and function. People are naturally omnivores. We thrive best on food from all sources. We are not canibles by nature, and you can't make an argument supporting that.

I don't agree with the animal rights! so we must be vegetarian. I believed that for a whole year and was a vegetarian during that time. What confuses me even more, is that many of the pagans I see are either meat is awesome! activists, or vegetarians. These two extremes bother me, but the vegetarian one moreso. But I suppose the reasons behind that are that I am more inclined towards shamanism than any form of paganism or religon, and it stems from that. ( shrugs )

Well as a VIT . . . Vegan In Training, I don't agree that vegans are taking it too far obviously. Originally I wanted to become a Vegetarian for health reasons, I wanted to be healthier, and in researching it I found out about the injustices in the meat industry. I Met my Meet and I didn't like it. lol So that changed my entire view on being a vegetarian and I think helped me stay strong during the early withdrawal periods.lol And now I'm working towards going vegan because I realize that if a huge part of my reasoning for being a veghead is Animal Rights and not agreeing with the injustices in the industry then there is no way that I can continue to drink milk and eat eggs knowing that they experience the same horrors. And it's as simple as that. I love being a veghead though, I've learned so much and raised so much awareness within myself that I feel like a different person an I'm able to do the same with other people when the question my vegetarianism, even if they don't agree, I'm planting little seeds. lol So there. No I don't think Vegans are taking it to far . . . unless you mean those crazy red paint throwing harassers who give us sane vegheads a bad name.

It's enough for some people, apparently.

I'd much rather not actually see an animal slaughtered in person simply because I don't like death. Would watching that turn me away from eating meat? No. It would just gross me out and probably cause me to lose sleep for a while. Then I'd forget about it and everything would be back to normal.

So, some might wonder that if I don't like death, why doesn't eating dead animals bother me? Fair enough question. The answer is that I don't witness or take part in the death of the animals whose flesh I consume. It happened far away where I wasn't involved. Out of sight, out of mind, end of story. But again, that's just me.

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Originally posted by clpo13:
Heh, as I've said before, watching videos of animals being slaughtered never bothered me.

Watching videos isn't quite the same...

Heh, as I've said before, watching videos of animals being slaughtered never bothered me.

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Because if you're going to eat your meat, atleast meet your meat.

I know you weren't talking to me but I just wanted to point out that I have "met my meat" and I still eat meat (not commercial beef but I've already said that). Not everyone who "meets their meat" becomes a vegetarian.

And yeah, I'm still lost as to what the whole "plants feel pain" thing is about.

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Originally posted by Horselover14:

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Originally posted by Slewinca:

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What if i love plant life too ...where am i then ??

Go breathairian (someone who eats air)

LOL It's good to see you again girl.

And yeah, like Slewinca said, plants can't feel pain and animals can.

However if you are interested there is a group of people against cruelty to vegetables...
Each to their own i guess


hahaha

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Originally posted by Slewinca:

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...its food ....survival .

Yeah...and you can eat other foods to survive too, you know.

The survival arguement is old and certainly not valid. We arent animals in the wild anymore, we have developed well enough to survive quite happily without consuming animal produce, those who produce this arguement are producing it because they have no other arguement.

Slewinca, its good to see you're a vegetarian who knows her shit, you make great points.

I also love all the personal shoves at vegetarians and vegans, i wouldve thought people could have come up with something better by now. How very clever of you.


As for clpo13, taking your quote from another thread

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But you know what's really nasty? Raw milk. No pasteurization. No homogenization. Just cooling and maybe a bit of straining (to get the big hairs out). No surprise that people have gotten sick from that, too...

How amusing.
I love how you comment on how icky it is to have to drink milk that isnt disguised. Just wondering are you one of these people who wouldnt go and milk a cow and slaughter one, or a lamb or a chicken and prepare and cook and eat it?
Because if you're going to eat your meat, atleast meet your meat.

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Yeah...and you can eat other foods to survive too, you know.

Just saying its not pointless hunting or leather or ....

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No it's not, but the majority of animals killed in the U.S. are killed for food (over 9 billion a year), so that pretty much outweighs the other causes. Though they're still important, someone who cares about animals shouldn't ignore the biggest massacre of all.

The maximum EATEN in India would be chicken actually next to goat . Beef is not really eaten . But then again Im against MISTREATMENT because there is something i can do about that .Im not against eating meat .

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Most of the practices on factory farms that cause suffering are pretty intentional; debeaking, overcrowding, keeping them in small cages, etc.

Debeaking is done when the chicks are about 2 days old ...it doesnt hurt them and it prevents their own damage later . Overcrowding ...yeah a little bit especially when you talk about mechanical brooders and things like that , the space is down to a science . How much space would a chick need to live and be happy so that there is no fighting , no spread of disease and no catching of ticks and whatever , keeping them in small cages is mostly for the transport and agreed its mostly the transportation where they are mistreated the most . (been talking about chicken coz ive never seen a Beef farm out here )

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On dairy, that's kind of what this thread's about, since vegans do not consume dairy (yes it's possible). Buffaloes? I didn't think the buffalo meat industry was all that large, or are you referring to something else?

Yeah i know vegans dont consume Dairy ....but for the life of me i cant imagine anybody surviving on Tofu and Soya . I was talking of Buffaloes as in the Dairy industry actually .....Okay now im just interested ...what about soaps and stuff like that ??

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LOL It's good to see you again girl.

Thanks! I know, I'm a bit of a recluse

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Dogs and cows are very different.

In looks, yes, but not so much in terms of their shared ability to feel pain and suffer.

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...its food ....survival .

Yeah...and you can eat other foods to survive too, you know.

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its not only the meat animals that are mistreated

No it's not, but the majority of animals killed in the U.S. are killed for food (over 9 billion a year), so that pretty much outweighs the other causes. Though they're still important, someone who cares about animals shouldn't ignore the biggest massacre of all.

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I know animals are sometimes mistreated but its not THAT bad . Honestly ive seen some Poultry houses and fish farms and whatever .....the health of the animal is in the best interest of everybody ...they dont really mistreat them intentionally .

Most of the practices on factory farms that cause suffering are pretty intentional; debeaking, overcrowding, keeping them in small cages, etc.

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you know what about the dairy cows and buffaloes

On dairy, that's kind of what this thread's about, since vegans do not consume dairy (yes it's possible). Buffaloes? I didn't think the buffalo meat industry was all that large, or are you referring to something else?

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Are you gonna stop having anything to do with milk, milk products and medicine too ??

While I am currently not vegan, I would do so if I could. (Though I would miss cheese...) About medicines, ones that are already in existance due to animal tests we can't do much about, like many of the roads in this country were built by slaves, but you can't boycott the road itself, it wouldn't do a thing (except prevent auto emissions). And on prescription medications, I do not take any, but if I needed to do so to live a normal life, I would, so I could use my life to help animals and others. (Mary Beth Sweetland, who works at PETA, made this choice regarding her insulin, and while many slander her for it, I think it was the right decision)

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Save the environment but be a little realistic about it .....solve the problems that you can .....dont go overboard with things that dont really help in anyway except for appeasing self-guilt .

There is truth to that, people often get too hung up on things like "paper or plastic bags?" or "cloth or disposable diapers?" when it's the larger things we should focus on, like our cars and the foods we eat. Yes, I'm an environmentalist too.

Okay agree about the pain thing .
But why would i pay someone to cut meat ...... its coz i eat it . Seriously im not hunting or ....whatever ...its food ....survival .
I know animals are sometimes mistreated but its not THAT bad . Honestly ive seen some Poultry houses and fish farms and whatever .....the health of the animal is in the best interest of everybody ...they dont really mistreat them intentionally . But yeah those who do deserve to be jailed .
I think ive mentioned all this in another post but still ...its not only the meat animals that are mistreated you know what about the dairy cows and buffaloes ......what about those used for medicine testing . Are you gonna stop having anything to do with milk, milk products and medicine too ??

Save the environment but be a little realistic about it .....solve the problems that you can .....dont go overboard with things that dont really help in anyway except for appeasing self-guilt .

Ive checked the Vegan outreach site though the other one isnt opening on my comp and i still dont agree with you or them ...

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If you wouldn't take a dog [...] and brand him, castrate him without painkillers, make him live in his own filth in a small space and then slit his throat and eat him, then why pay someone else to do it to another species of animal?

I wouldn't do it because I don't like to kill and I wouldn't have the time or patience. But I pay for other people to kill cows because I like meat. I'm not involved in the killing, ergo it doesn't bother me.

Besides, why would I want to eat a dog? Dogs and cows are very different. Unless you're in Asia, I suppose.

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Originally posted by Slewinca:

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What if i love plant life too ...where am i then ??

Go breathairian (someone who eats air)

LOL It's good to see you again girl.

And yeah, like Slewinca said, plants can't feel pain and animals can.

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What if i love plant life too ...where am i then ??

Go breathairian (someone who eats air)

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How do you grade life then ?? That an organism having a thinking power has a right to live and the others dont ??

Actually, it doesn't have anything to do with intellect, it has everything to do with the capacity to feel pain and suffer from it. Plants, as far as we know, don't have the capacity to feel pain and suffer from it like we do. Animals, on the other hand, feel pain and suffer just like us.
Think about this: If you wouldn't take a dog (your dog, a friend's dog, a dog on the street, whatever) and brand him, castrate him without painkillers, make him live in his own filth in a small space and then slit his throat and eat him, then why pay someone else to do it to another species of animal?

Maybe if you looked into this issue more, you would understand it better.
These two websites may help with that:
www.goveg.com
www.veganoutreach.org (if you don't like PETA, this is a great site to check out, they're very level-headed)

I never get the vegetarian to protect animals thing . What if i love plant life too ...where am i then ?? How do you grade life then ?? That an organism having a thinking power has a right to live and the others dont ??
No offense ...i just dont get the point...