I don't think vegans are taking things too far. If you became a vegitarian for animal rights then you should understand that animals do deserve rights. Giving cows hormons so they produce milk to the point that the underside of their utters get infections and often injures the cow is not animal rights in any sence of the word. When we fought for women rights we didn't say well we let them live they don't need to vote and be able to get jobs that's just taking it to far. There is no way that letting animals live without locking them up and using them for our personal benifit is too far. Besides, if people were not so confortable with using animals it would seem absurd. Most people today think slavery is wrong and can not believe it ever occured. However, when it was occurring people got so use to it that it didn't seem wrong to a lot of them. That is what I believe is happening people are so use to us treating animals like **** they don't even think that it is wrong.

HAL-EH-LUHHHH-YA(i know that's not spelled right). A smart newbie. I never new this day would come!

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Originally posted by Brehon:
I am a vegeterian, and although i can see where vegans are coming from it is shaky ground.

People put forward arguments like humans are the top of the food chain, animals have no sense of right and wrong etc, they simply don't have any sense of moral responsibilty. I am a druid and hence believe that all life is sacred, but so should Christians. For did not god, when he created man tell him to multiply that he might be a guardian of the things that he had placed on the earth?

I may loathe your views, but i would die for your right to express them. If this is true then why don't you leave vegans alone, and try to let them live in an understanding peaceful culture?

Because PETA is not a understanding and peaceful social movement.

And Humans being the guardians and stewarts of animals also means killing them when it is neccessary.

I'm one of those people who believes it is perfectly ok for humans to raise, slaughter, and eat animals. I have personally killed an butchered my share. It is perfectly alright, I assure you.

veganism isn't going too far... maybe to you but not to others. besides... egg laying hens and dairy cows are treated just as badly as the animals used for food.

if you want more info perhaps you could watch "meet your meat" but only do this if you have a strong stomach and don't break down at the sight of abused animals because there are some very disturbing scenes.

-e

I became a vegetarian for the same reason as you Lovato: animal rights. But I don't think it's wrong to kill animals for food. What I think is wrong is to keep animals cooped up in terrible living conditions, eating a mixture of their own feces and sawdust and never being able to see the light of day. For this reason I think that being a vegan is perfectly reasonable if you have the dedication and resources to do it healthily (something that's very hard). And, unfortunately, I don't.

I am a vegeterian, and although i can see where vegans are coming from it is shaky ground.

People put forward arguments like humans are the top of the food chain, animals have no sense of right and wrong etc, they simply don't have any sense of moral responsibilty. I am a druid and hence believe that all life is sacred, but so should Christians. For did not god, when he created man tell him to multiply that he might be a guardian of the things that he had placed on the earth?

I may loathe your views, but i would die for your right to express them. If this is true then why don't you leave vegans alone, and try to let them live in an understanding peaceful culture?

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We wouldn't be if it weren't for our weapons.

Ummm... OK let the pigs and cows take up arms against us then and revolt, wait... they can't because they aren't intelligent enough. We could kill a cow without a "weapon." That is a ridiculous argument.

I eat eggs and millk and chees and bacon and chicken and steak and just about everything that has to do with animals. There is no "innocent" when it comes to animals. They don't know right from wrong, they are animals. They can't be good or bad animals. We are above animals on the food chain and when it comes to intelligence.

I must agree with northstar, they can do whatever they want, I don't care. I like meat and it is not illegal to eat meat products. If it were you would have a point, but it isn't so you don't. They can eat whatever they want. While I disagree with it, it really isn't that big of a deal. I disagree with people who think that automatic transmissions are better than manual, but I don't care that they drive them.

The Vegans can do what the hell ever they want. Mind your god damned business.

We wouldn't be if it weren't for our weapons.

We are an animal yes, but we are at the top of the food chain.

good point bookie, we are dependent on each other. But most people still feel empathy for each other and try to act without cruelty, as opposed to treating other people like inanimate objects.

hmm...i wonder if we can digest bark? no herbivorous species is able to eat all kinds of plants.

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If humans are meant to eat plants primarily why can't we eat and digest bark?

It is probably possible to eat and digest bark. But i doubt anyone is stupid enough to try, therefore we will never know for sure.

Actually when you think about it everyone is being used by eachother for some reason or another. A boss uses an employee for work as the employee uses the boss for money. It is human nature to use what we have. I also pose a question. If humans are meant to eat plants primarily why can't we eat and digest bark?

i dunno, some people are vegans because it's healthier-yes healthier, because of allergies and the medications livestock owners feed beasties-for them to not eat dairy products. some people just think animal products are gross.

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A truely healhty diet which provides you with adequate amounts of protien and all vitamins involves the consumption of moderate amounts of meat.

not true. there are other sources of b vitamins (like yeast) and many sources of protein (nuts, legumes etc).

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The studies that show that meat eating is unhealthy cover diets that involve unhealthy levels of red meat and fats.
An improper Vegan diet will also cause loads of health troubles.

Vegan is not a superior choice. An omnivorous diet will get you along better.

Oh, i was sooo with you on the first part of what you said. but that stuff about a diet that includes meat being better is not true. Especially if you're somebody who doesn't have the enzymes to break down and digest meat (it happens)

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And for the record, beyond abuse and overhunting, animals are, in general, resources for us to use.

you are an animal. are you a resource to be used?

plus, bogey is right. we can eat meat, but we are actually designed to eat vegetables, fruits and grains.

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Originally posted by Bogey:

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but really the human body is made to consume meat

That's funny you bring that up. Actually, the human body, structurally, is not made for eating flesh. We have rounded teeth, which is good for soft foods and grain. We have the capability to eat meat, true, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we were made to have meat in our diet.

We were "made" to be omnivorous creatures. Our bodies are neither specialized for all meat or all veggie diets.

This is mirrored by the fact that a vegan diet is NOT the most healthy for you. A truely healhty diet which provides you with adequate amounts of protien and all vitamins involves the consumption of moderate amounts of meat.

The studies that show that meat eating is unhealthy cover diets that involve unhealthy levels of red meat and fats.
An improper Vegan diet will also cause loads of health troubles.

Vegan is not a superior choice. An omnivorous diet will get you along better.

And for the record, beyond abuse and overhunting, animals are, in general, resources for us to use.

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but really the human body is made to consume meat

That's funny you bring that up. Actually, the human body, structurally, is not made for eating flesh. We have rounded teeth, which is good for soft foods and grain. We have the capability to eat meat, true, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we were made to have meat in our diet.

Well I went veggie for one day then I got hungry and atesome real food meat
Just a joke but really the human body is made to consume meat and veggies and fruit and other stuff we are omnivores as in eat everything really meat veggies in the end you need both to be healthy and happy

I agree with Bogey. I'd go vegan if I could handle it...

If you are willing to live the vegan lifestyle, then more power to you. It's a healthier diet at the very least.

Also, I believe that many vegans not only think that the killing of the animals is wrong, but also the confinement of the animals. In order to get other products (non flesh products) from animals, they are confined or enclosed in a small area. That is not a desirable life to live.

All in all, I don' think that vegans are going to far whatsoever. Again, it is a healthier diet and, quite possibly, more morally respectable.

If it involves the killing of an animal then no I don't believe that it's right. However, if you are refering to the Native Americans hundreds of years ago then I suppose it's not as bad, but only because there were larger numbers of animals back then and also because they didn't have as many food items to choose from as we do now.