quote:

No, at heffer project international i went there for 2 weeks and learned all about farm animals, (just not their body parts) and i learned that if cows and goats aren't milked, then their udder sackages will get overflowed with milk.

This is not about letting a cow's udder explode. They wouldn't get like that if they weren't given hormones to make them produce more milk than they would naturally, and it wouldn't happen at all if they were allowed to keep their calves and nurse them instead of taking them away soon after birth. Cow's milk is for calves.

quote:

i totally agree.i have one friend who's a vegan and one friend who's a vegitartian becoming a vegan i really do think it's going too far. she won't eat real eggs. and she won't drink milk. she won't use real buter and i think it's just silly. i'm glad someone else sees it too.

Do you know how the majority of eggs sold in the U.S. are produced? From hens living in small, overcrowded cages like what is seen here: http://www.eggcruelty.com
Veganism is not "silly", it is one of the best methods of boycotting animal cruelty there is.
Please visit this website for information on veganism, for your friends sake (so that you can better understand it that is)! http://www.veganoutreach.org

quote:

Veganisim is going off the deep end a bit in my opinion! I myself am a vegetarian because of the health benefits...I mean seriously have you ever considered all the grossness that is in those dead animals, eating them can effect you physically for the rest of your life and may even couse you to contract a diesese. Becoming a vegan though is to far, I have several friends who are vegans and are some of the healthiest people I know, physically and mentally yet what I don't understand is how can they live without our oh so yummy chocolate?! Beats me!

Again, please see http://www.veganoutreach.org and maybe even request their vegan starter kit for more information.
And by the way, vegan chocolate lovers can still eat chocolate, just not the chocolate with milk in it. Ever heard of dark chocolate? Quite a few companies make vegan chocolates, like Endangered Species chocolates: http://www.chocolatebar.com/ http://www.veganessentials.com/catalog/endangered-speci...y-chocolate-bars.htm (part of the profits go to helping endangered animals, big bonus!) Some chocolate is even made with soymilk.
Besides, not everyone is a chocolate addict.

shouldnt each person's diet be a personal choice that they have to make for themselves?
If you think veganism is taking it a bit too far, then dont be a vegan. It should be every individual's choice, end of story.

Veganisim is going off the deep end a bit in my opinion! I myself am a vegetarian because of the health benefits...I mean seriously have you ever considered all the grossness that is in those dead animals, eating them can effect you physically for the rest of your life and may even couse you to contract a diesese. Becoming a vegan though is to far, I have several friends who are vegans and are some of the healthiest people I know, physically and mentally yet what I don't understand is how can they live without our oh so yummy chocolate?! Beats me!

quote:

Originally posted by bella123:
You aren't a cow are you?
Hypothetically, i would hope not.

No I'm not a cow, but that's doesn't have a thing to do with anything.

i totally agree.i have one friend who's a vegan and one friend who's a vegitartian becoming a vegan i really do think it's going too far. she won't eat real eggs. and she won't drink milk. she won't use real buter and i think it's just silly. i'm glad someone else sees it too.

No, at heffer project international i went there for 2 weeks and learned all about farm animals, (just not their body parts) and i learned that if cows and goats aren't milked, then their udder sackages will get overflowed with milk. That is why they must be milked twice a day. Cows and goats produce milk at all times, even if they are not pregnant. unlike humans. And human milk isint the same as cow milk. So there fore, cows and goats love to be milked, because they get hurt if they are not.

You aren't a cow are you?
Hypothetically, i would hope not.

quote:

Originally posted by EarthGoddess:

quote:

their bladders will get oversized

It's called an udder.

And besides, that isn't true. I'm female, and my breasts don't explode, BECAUSE I'M NO LACTATING! We trick the cow into thinking that it has a calf, thus it still lactates.

Just FYI. I'm not vegetarian by any means, but that's just insane.

quote:

their bladders will get oversized

It's called an udder.

milk cows LOVE being milked!! If cows are not milked, then their bladders will get oversized and the cow will get sick. So they enjoy being a milk cow. How is to a vegan, milk bad to consume! So it comes from an animal, but the animal isint suffering! Maybe if vegans would consume milk products from cows that LOVE being milked, eating grass and who never ever suffer in the liest, then veganism wouldnt be so out of line. But intil then, veganism is kinda screwwy

Yeah, I'd have to say I'd agree that you're taking it a bit too far when you won't even eat HONEY! Seriously, because it comes from bees that our living creatures. It all depends on your beleifs though, I guess. If that's what you truly beleive, no doubt about it, in your heart, then go for it, but do it right and do it healthly. Personally, i'm ovo-lacto, I think it's healthier and I don't eat anything that used to have a face.

Apostrope, while I am pleased to hear that you are vegan, I have to disagree with your statement:

quote:

After seeing how animals are treated for their fur and milk how can a person say that their change into vegetarianism helps prevent harm to animals?

It's better than nothing, is it not? If more people simply reduced the amount of meat they consumed, millions of animals would be spared of having to go through such a miserable existance. We, as animal rights activists, have to be pragmatic and be able to praise others for the positive things they have done for animals, not judge and condemn them for the things they haven't done. Holier-than-thou attitudes don't help our cause one iota.

Have you read Vegan Outreach's article A Meaningful Life? It's quite good. http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/meaningfullife.html

quote:

It is time to evolve by not eating and wearing animals. also, Anyone who says that it is a false cause is uninformed since most organizations for animals are non-profit.

False cause, no. Lost cause, yes.

You can be as vegan as you want, but it's not going to change the fact I don't care enough to stop eating animals.

I Absolutely agree and applaud you for going vegetarian. but I was vegetarian for 3 years and turned vegan last year. After seeing how animals are treated for their fur and milk how can a person say that their change into vegetarianism helps prevent harm to animals? If we have the means to use other materials and ingredients other than animals parts then why not just use them.

It is time to evolve by not eating and wearing animals. also, Anyone who says that it is a false cause is uninformed since most organizations for animals are non-profit.

quote:

Then why do people get colon cancer?

Because they eat excessive amounts of crappy foods, like cheesebugers, nachos, burritos, french fries, and potato chips, without getting enough fiber.

quote:

Why are we unable to eat raw meat like all the other carnivores/omnivores on the planet without getting deathly ill?

We can, but we don't because it dosen't taste good to most people. Rural Native Alaskans up here eat rotten meat and raw whale meat pretty often without getting sick.

quote:

Admit it, people can live without meat.

Of course, that's why we're omnivores. We can survive on whatever is available.

quote:

Can you say "vitamin pills"?

I don't take vitamin pills. Besides, a lot of people who eat meat take vitamin pills too, so it's not much of an argument.

Vitamin pills weren't around in Pythagoras' time, were they? (he was one of the first vegetarians, in fact vegetarians were called "Pythagorians" then)

quote:

how am I and all the other vegetarians and vegans in the world still living?

Can you say "vitamin pills"?

If one lives on vegetables and vegetables alone, one won't get the all necessary nutrients one needs to be healthy. That's why they make protein pills, and calcium pills, and all manner of artificial ways of getting what you need. Face it, if those weren't around, not as many people would be vegetarians. Notice how vegetarianism is a more modern thing?

quote:

The same right they have to crush and kill/maim thier prey or enemies.

Animals do a lot of things that aren't allowed by our society. When a new male lion defeats the old male lion who was the leader of the pride, the new lion kills the young of the old lion. Should human stepfathers do the same? It has been documented that lemurs commit rape, should that be legalized? A lot of animals steal, should stealing be legalized too? Hey, animals in the wild don't wear clothes, let's be nudists!

But seriously, in the wild, it's kill or be killed. Obviously, most humans today don't have to live like that. We have choices now. We're no better than an animal when it comes to what we eat, but suddenly we're above them when it comes to other things? What kind of reasoning is that?

quote:

A better question to ask is: if humans weren't supposed to eat animals, why are our appendices-- plant-matter related organs--vestigial? Answer: humans have progressed beyond the berries and leaves stage. Meat is a vital part of our diet, as anyone can tell you.

Then why do people get colon cancer? Why are we unable to eat raw meat like all the other carnivores/omnivores on the planet without getting deathly ill?
Face it, when it comes to being omnivores, humans are wimps.

And if meat is something no one can live without, then how am I and all the other vegetarians and vegans in the world still living? We're not on life support (obviously). Admit it, people can live without meat.

quote:

This planet does NOT need more people. The reason most areas today are experiancing famine are because the populations have exceeded the carrying capacity of the reigion. Supporting these unnaturally high populations with even more forgien grain is not what we need to be doing.

Jeez, I've never heard of pro famine before.

I agree that overpopulation is a huge issue, I think one of the most important since so many others are dirrect results of the disproportionate number of people per our sustaining capacity. But to say that starvation is helping with it is a cold folly.

How about we feed and care for the people we've already got around while dropping codoms from our bombers. And educating local people of India or South Africa etc. to teach the rest of the village that birth control is not white people's way of suppressing their race or rights....Take it from there.


Of course humans are omnivores by design. But we have evolved so that we do not need to rely on meat as a form of nutrition and our brains are big enough to make decisions like becoming a vegan or vegetarian. I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not a vegenazi who cringes at the sight of a hamburger or berates people for choosing to eat meat. It's a personal decision, like how religion should be.

quote:

if God didn't want us to eat animals, why do we have canine teeth?

A better question to ask is: if humans weren't supposed to eat animals, why are our appendices-- plant-matter related organs--vestigial? Answer: humans have progressed beyond the berries and leaves stage. Meat is a vital part of our diet, as anyone can tell you.