I think people should be able to eat what ever they want, vegan or what ever. Personally, I've shot, butchered, and processed moose and caribou and YUM are they GOOD!

However, I think that our meat industries need to be much more regulated as to the hormones, etc. that they give to animals and as to how they treat the animals. I'm seriously considering not eating commercial meat for health reasons, the stuff they feed/inject the beef with is nasty!

All right Slewinca, if it wasn't PETA, who said that if cats and dogs could speak, they'd express an opinion not to have their ability to reproduce taken away?

And also, there are exceptions, such as BSE which is a deformed protein, not a germ or virus, but when meat is cooked, the germs are killed. Ever try to make bread with yeast and hot water? The bread doesn't rise. Why? Because the yeast is killed by the hot water. Heat sterilizes meat, so to speak. I know BSE can't be gotten rid of, but that's a different story completely.

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I have watched the Meatrix. It was corny beyond words.

Fine, but what about meet your meat? That's anything but corny, I swear.

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I couldn't care less how my meat comes to my plate as long as it's there and well done.

A little ignorance to-go, eh? Well, have it your way
Oh, and keep in mind that people aren't treated all that well in the meat industry either: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2001/07/meatpacking.html

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You PETA lovers have stated that spaying/neutering is bad many a time.

EXCUSE ME?!? Since when has anyone said anything like that? I know you've read this thread http://boards.youthnoise.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/41510584663/m/58510635763 Did anyone post anything saying that spaying/neutering is a bad thing? No. Does PETA think spaying/neutering is cruel or bad? No. I don't know of any animal rights organizations that are against spaying/neutering, not a single one! What are you trying to prove by saying this dumb@$$ cr@p?

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Mainly, it's sites like this that make me pay less attention. Apparently, the only way I can avoid BSE is to become a vegan. Well, that's a risk I'll just have to take.

Well, you can't blame them for being opportunistic.

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I'd rather eat muscle than a vegetable that's been in the ground. And has had cow feces used to fertilize it. That's just wrong.

You can wash off a vegetable, but the contamination in meat (not just BSE mind you) can't be washed off (especially with ground meat). You know, germs and those sorts of things.

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If it was so good for you, why did they need to develop alternate sources of nutrients like tofu?

If a regular meat-eating diet is so good, then why do people take vitamin/mineral supplements? And tofu has been around for a long time, the chinese ate it for thousands (don't quote me on that, I'm not sure exactly how long) of years before America ever got ahold of it.

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But really, one thing that makes me mad is those crazy vegetarians and vegans that when they see someone eat meat spazz out at them. Luckily, most of the ones on here don't seem like that.

No, I'm not like that, newworldhippie might be, but I'm not. Toxicfox isn't like that either as far as I know.
I think that whole thing is a little dumb. Spazzing out on people doesn't accomplish anything.

As I have said before, this is my favorite site about veganism because it's more level-headed than others: www.veganoutreach.org I suggest that anyone wanting to learn more about veganism look there.

Oh, and here's a little something I forgot to include in my last post, clpo:
If you are what you eat, that makes you dead meat

hahha, yeah, darn it! sorry. rots in the colon! rots in the colon! thanks for fixing my mistake slewinca. i was having a duh moment.

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Originally posted by clpo13:
Vegans AND vegetarians are taking things too far. Animals were put on this earth for one reason. No, it's not to look cute. It's to eat and be eaten. Food chain, people. Don't kick yourself out of it. Not only is it bad for you (who knows what they put in Boca Burgers...), but it screws with the natural order of things.

^_^ *claps* Bravo clpol3! That was excellently stated! I don't understand why all you people keep saying the vegan diet is better for you. If it was so good for you, why did they need to develop alternate sources of nutrients like tofu?
Although...I do think that the animal containment systems need to be reformed. Those commercials from burger king's chicken houses are sad... =/
I actually don't like meat. I don't know why. I just never have. Haha that's kind of ironic. But really, one thing that makes me mad is those crazy vegetarians and vegans that when they see someone eat meat spazz out at them. Luckily, most of the ones on here don't seem like that.

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Because some people care about animals and the environment and their own health. You make it sound as if vegetarianism is some awful punishment or something.

Well, to someone who can't comprehend a life without meat, it is some awful punishment. "Cruel and unusual" in the words of one of my friends. I have watched the Meatrix. It was corny beyond words. I couldn't care less how my meat comes to my plate as long as it's there and well done.

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It's sort of like spaying/neutering cats and dogs for example, it helps prevent animal suffering.

Ah, but doesn't the dog/cat suffer when spayed or neutered? If not physically, mentally it does. You PETA lovers have stated that spaying/neutering is bad many a time.

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I think what she meant to say (at least I hope she did) was that it rots in the colon and stays there for quite some time (this is especially the case for red meat). In fact, a recent study found that red meat is a big factor in causing colon cancer. If you never heard that, I would be surprised because it was all over the news not too long ago.

That's news to me. But then, I pay attention to other things in the news. Mainly, it's sites like this that make me pay less attention. Apparently, the only way I can avoid BSE is to become a vegan. Well, that's a risk I'll just have to take.

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The difference is that with meat you're eating the dead muscle tissue; i.e. flesh, of a dead animal.
Pretty gross when you really look at it, isn't it?

No, not really. I just don't think of meat like that. To me, meat is meat, not muscle tissue. If I think of it that way, it's okay. However, I refuse to eat something with eyes or a head. It freaks me out. Like it's...looking at me...but a steak doesn't have eyes. Thus, I eat the steak regardless of whether there's a possibility it came from a cow with BSE. Besides, I'd rather eat muscle than a vegetable that's been in the ground. And has had cow feces used to fertilize it. That's just wrong.

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Really, why would anyone want to become a vegetarian?

Because some people care about animals and the environment and their own health. You make it sound as if vegetarianism is some awful punishment or something.

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They're not going to gain any rights if you refuse to eat them.

Well duh. If you want to know the reason why so much, why don't you watch these? www.meetyourmeat.com www.themeatrix.com And read some of the things from here: www.factoryfarming.com

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So they don't all die out? Well, what'd Slewinca just say? There doesn't seem to be any point.

The less meat people eat, the less animals are born just to be killed. It's sort of like spaying/neutering cats and dogs for example, it helps prevent animal suffering.
I don't know how to explain it in any other way to you.

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Rots in the stomach? Meat isn't in the stomach for nearly long enough. The acid begins to work almost immediately.

I think what she meant to say (at least I hope she did) was that it rots in the colon and stays there for quite some time (this is especially the case for red meat). In fact, a recent study found that red meat is a big factor in causing colon cancer. If you never heard that, I would be surprised because it was all over the news not too long ago.

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Dead plants, dead meat...what's the difference. Food is food.

The difference is that with meat you're eating the dead muscle tissue; i.e. flesh, of a dead animal.
Pretty gross when you really look at it, isn't it?

Rots in the stomach? Meat isn't in the stomach for nearly long enough. The acid begins to work almost immediately. And I can prove that, too. Besides, plants rot too. Ever leave lettuce out on the counter overnight? Pretty nasty. They're dead as well. Dead plants, dead meat...what's the difference. Food is food.

haha, i get the "mmm! nice big steak" thing from just about all the meat eating kids who know i'm a vegetarian. i just dont like the taste/texture/smell...it makes me feel a little queasy even thinking about it. just like someone would feel if a big plate of (insert whatever food you dont like) got plopped down in front of them. for me, the animal rights issue is just an added thing. i stopped eating meat beacause i didnt want to eat dead flesh that rots in the stomach. i think the only reason i ate meat before (other than i ate what my parents ate) was for the condiments. hehhe, i love steak sauce and bbq sauce. ive never told anyone that they HAD to just stop eating meat because it was a horrid bad bad thing, that would be like somebody telling me i could never eat a bar of dark chocolate ever again. just craziness. it actually bothers me a little bit when some kids do that. you go have your nice hunk of juicy steak clpo13, ive got my fake chik'n nuggets in the oven and i'll bring the A1. mmm!

Look people, it was just an example. A very broad, very general example. But honestly, if humans were meant to be vegetarians or vegans, our appendix (which is remarkably similar to an organ in horses that allows them to digest plant matter easily) would be of some use. As it is, humans have evolved away from the hunting/gathering mode. We can't easily survive on plants alone. Sure, you can substitute tofu and soy for your meat, but why? Really, why would anyone want to become a vegetarian? Animal rights? They're not going to gain any rights if you refuse to eat them. More for the rest of us. So they don't all die out? Well, what'd Slewinca just say? There doesn't seem to be any point. In my humble opinion, you're all just a bunch of weirdos. And yes, you can quote me on that. Now, I shall go find a nice hunk of juicy steak and devour it messily.

clpo13, there is one major flaw in your theory (other than that [most] people don't eat bears): A majority of the human beings on earth don't eat animals from the wild. Eating or not eating animals in this country will not send the food chain system into a tailspin. Cows, pigs and chickens are bred and raised to meet the consumer demand. If people eat less meat, it will only mean that less animals are bred for slaughter; not that we'll have feral cows running amok.
The point is that as a species, most of us have already removed ourselves from the food chain/circle of life/etc. scheme of things, so being vegetarian or vegan won't change that.
We should be more concerned about the extinction of predator species sending the food chain off kilter, not vegetarians/vegans (in the respect of the food chain that is).

hmmmm....i'm a vegatarian....but you know what? this Earth is over run by human beings too, and theyre made out of edible substances, i think i'm going to be a cannibal. yes indeedy, where's the fafa beans?

keke.

Vegans AND vegetarians are taking things too far. Animals were put on this earth for one reason. No, it's not to look cute. It's to eat and be eaten. Food chain, people. Don't kick yourself out of it. Not only is it bad for you (who knows what they put in Boca Burgers...), but it screws with the natural order of things. By not eating animals, you are technically allowing more of those animals to live, thus breaking the fragile balance of nature. One person doesn't make much of a difference, granted, but it's the principle of things. Besides, there are many vegans and vegetarians out there.

Okay, imagine this: a plant gets energy from the sun, a field mouse comes along and eats the plant. A snake eats the mouse. A ferret eats the snake. A wolf eats the ferret. A bear eats the wolf. A human kills the bear and eats it. Basic food chain. Let's see what happens if the human decides to become a vegan. There are now more bears to eat more wolves. Less wolves mean less ferrets eaten. The ferret population flourishes, thus reducing the number of mice. With less mice to eat them, the plants continue to grow and eventually overgrow areas where there used to be none of those plants.

Let's just say the plant is kudzu. Kudzu is an invasive species. For this scenario, the mice keep the kudzu in check. Without the mice (who have been eaten by all the ferrets), the kudzu takes over everything, which it will do. There's a picture of it in the March 2005 issue of National Geographic where kudzu has overgrown a Honda Civic. It's madness.

So, by becoming a vegan or vegetarian, you are potentially letting your car get overgrown by weeds. Well, not really, but I hope this gives you a basic idea of what disrupting the food chain can do.

I am all for animal rights. I totally agree with you, ruby.
If people want to go vegan, what's wrong with that? Let them, it's their decision what they eat. I agree that it's healthier and definately more animal friendly. I mean, it's an extreme, but I don't see anything wrong with it.

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if the animal is not being harmed, then why fret about it?

But the thing is here, the animals, especially the ones in the egg and dairy industries, are being harmed. Did you know that the male chicks that come from the breeders of egg-laying hens are killed as soon as possible because thy are not the variety that the meat industry prefers?

Is this not cruel?


(Those are veal calves. Veal calves often come from dairy farms, since a cow has to be impregnated and give birth in order to give milk, and most of the resulting male calves are of no use to the farm)

If for some reason those pics are removed, check out www.factoryfarming.com and www.eggcrualty.com more more information and pictures.

And here are links to some videos (including the one 3rdeyecure mentioned:
www.meetyourmeat.com
http://www.cok.net/camp/inv/cff/videos.php
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/GetVideo.asp?video=unhappy-cows
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=cok_chickens
http://www.goveg.com/feat/meatrix.html

I'd like to add that I am not vegan (I'm vegetarian) but I would like to become one in the future.

Not all vegans, just the ones who like to publicize mostly. The stereotypical vegan is like that.

eh?

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I know this may sound abit negative but we have to face the facts people this world we live in is DRIVEN BY MONEY!!!!!! nothing will ever stop the fact that WE NEED AN ECONOMY!

Yes, we see wrong in the world so we should definitely all sit on our ***** and do nothing about it. Good plan.

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nothing will ever stop the fact that WE NEED AN ECONOMY!

Wow, You are to Keynes as Candide is to Aristotle.

Hello I am knew to the site and would like to thank whoever created it.
Ok to get to the point Im happy for anyone that stnds up and ahs the courage to speak up for what they belive in but....if you are going to protest animals being killed why not not wearing certain jeans since they use child labor or using certain paper because it comes from areas dominated by slavery and comes from an endangered rainforest that is probably habitat to numerous endangered species/plants/ecosystems ect. I know this may sound abit negative but we have to face the facts people this world we live in is DRIVEN BY MONEY!!!!!! nothing will ever stop the fact that WE NEED AN ECONOMY! I hope I don't offend anyone that may be a vegan or is a Veggie but sometimes you need to take action and I understand