So, what do you all think of the Animal Rights(AR) movement? Do you feel that animals have inherent rights? If so, should humans be allowed to infringe on those rights merely to satisfy a replaceable interest? If you do not believe animals have rights, do you still believe all humans have inherent rights and are deserving of moral consideration? If you do, what distinctly human characteristic do we all possess which makes us deserving of rights/moral consideration, but not other sentient beings?
Monarch Butterflies are poisonous. Any animal that consumes them gets very, very sick.
Monarchs are poisonous, yes. But that does not make them a useless part of nature. Their "job" is to pollinate flowers, like all other butterflies. The poison, which comes from the poisonous plants it eats as a caterpillar, is just a form of survival.
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They also only consume liquid, so they aren't important in the sense that certain other insects are important.
They consume liquid? Liquid what? Liquid Nitrogen? I hope you meant that sweet liquid found in flowers, called Nectar.
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So, important to the ecosystem?
Yep. If you don't like them, whatever, but that doesn't make them invaluable to the environment. All the creatures, big and small, and the plants around us, are connected in the beautiful web of life. Take away the Monarch, other lifeforms will be affected.
As someone who raises butterflies and moths, and truly deeply loves and understands them, I'm am curious to know who said such completely stupid things about butterflies (not you Earthgoddess, whoever said the quotes you responded to).
First of all, the monarch is poisonous yes. It's a defense mechanism. It's not poisonous to certain animals however, so it therefore acts a source of food for them in its larval, pupal, egg, and adult stages. For example, tiny wasps called brachonoids are predators of monarchs. They lay their eggs in a monarch caterpillar and, after it forms a pupa, about 100 tiny brachonoids will emerge from the chrysalis.
Also, yes they do drink NECTAR as this person so immaturely put it. By traveling from flower to flower looking for nectar, butterflies actively allow for pollination and plant repreoduction. Pollen will cling to the tiny hairs on their legs and be deposited either in the air, as the butterfly flies, or on another flower when the insect lands. Also, although this is a small task, butterflies remove waste from the environment. Contrary to popular belief, butterflies feed off of animal dung, dead animals, animal urine, mud, tree sap, and even human sweat.
Also, by laying eggs on plants, and this is for both moths and butterflies, plant populations are loosely kept in check. One butterfly can lay up to 1500 eggs, although this varies between species. Most butterflies can only lay about 150 or 200.
Also, some of the larvae of the smaller butterflies called hairstreaks, elfins, and blues secrete a waxy sugar substance. Ants are attracted to this substance and actively feed off of the caterpillar's secretion. At the same time, the ants protect the caterpillar from predators. This is a symbiotic relationship.
Don't say they're not useless if you understand nothing about them you moron. PS, thank you Earthgoddess for watching out for the butterflies
"No, this trick won't work...How on earth are you ever going to explain in terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phenomenon as first love?" - Albert Einstein
I believe animals were put on earth for the benefit of humans. That's not to say you ought to go around and stick knives in cows for the fun of it, but when it comes to animal testing at the benefit of humans, I'm all for it.
But what you're essentially saying (in reference to the Dodo) is that nature balances itself out. It would do the same in the case of the Monarchs.
Viceroys are under less attack BECAUSE they resemble Monarchs, even though they aren't poisonous. So their population would take a dip, but not that drastically.
Whatever, I just don't like butterflies and I won't be upset if they become extinct.
I wasn't aware, however, that I had to elaborate on what I assumed was a point all understood.
Sorry, it just bugs me when people are wrong.
Believe it or not, Monarchs are important. Less Monarchs, less Viceroys, less flowers, less food for other insects and birds, their populations decline, the animals that eat those insects and birds would be affected as well. When the Dodo died out, it's predators' populations went down, and the population of the food it ate went up. When an animal vanishes suddenly, other animals and/or plants are affected, whether positively or negatively. Nature adapts, yes, but that takes time.
Originally posted by EarthGoddess: They consume liquid? Liquid what? Liquid Nitrogen? I hope you meant that sweet liquid found in flowers, called Nectar.
I was well aware of that. I wasn't aware, however, that I had to elaborate on what I assumed was a point all understood.
Yes, they consume liquid from plants called nectar. I understand that. It doesn't make me believe they're important.
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Yep. If you don't like them, whatever, but that doesn't make them invaluable to the environment. All the creatures, big and small, and the plants around us, are connected in the beautiful web of life. Take away the Monarch, other lifeforms will be affected.
Tell that to the Dodo bird, Spanish Wolf, Eastern Elk, Sea Mink, Emperor Rat, and the host of other animals that have gone extinct without a bat of an eyelash by the rest of the ecosystem. Life moves on.
Extinct is a natural process of evolution. Whether we impede on that is irrelevant. It happens. Animals adapt far more readily than we do. That's why they existed before us, and will exist after we're gone.
Monarch Butterflies are poisonous. Any animal that consumes them gets very, very sick.
Monarchs are poisonous, yes. But that does not make them a useless part of nature. Their "job" is to pollinate flowers, like all other butterflies. The poison, which comes from the poisonous plants it eats as a caterpillar, is just a form of survival.
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They also only consume liquid, so they aren't important in the sense that certain other insects are important.
They consume liquid? Liquid what? Liquid Nitrogen? I hope you meant that sweet liquid found in flowers, called Nectar.
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So, important to the ecosystem?
Yep. If you don't like them, whatever, but that doesn't make them invaluable to the environment. All the creatures, big and small, and the plants around us, are connected in the beautiful web of life. Take away the Monarch, other lifeforms will be affected.
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We believe that animals have interests in living their lives and avoiding pain and suffering, and that we should respect those interests.
Slewinca, that is why the rabbit, the deer, the fox, the squirrel, the meerkat, the antelope, etc, are all masters of evasion. If we weren't meant to catch and eat them, they wouldn't need to be swift and cunning. I'm sure a rabbit just wants to live and eat and sleep and have babies, but when it's time to die, it's time to die. That's nature. If a crocodile ripped me to peices and ate me, it was meant to be. If a deer is shot through the heart and eaten by man, it was meant to be. Nature is an awfully cruel bitch. It created an ape with the brain power to out-manuever all other animals and become a super-predator. What is, is what must be.
Originally posted by sudha: climate warming hits hard in cold reghions partly because of albedo feedback...snow and ice have a very high albedo they both relflect a lot of solar enery..but as heat melts snow and ice, darker less reflective land or water is exposed..more heat is absorbed giving rise to further melting and warming..and this happens because of the CO2 induced global warming!!!!
I'm not saying global warming may not be a problem, but it certainly is not the reason polar bears in endangered right now. Animals can adapt to climate change, be it immediate or slow. They cannot, however, adapt to pollution or poaching, both of which are illegal and both of which I am against wholeheartedly.
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these butterflies are also found in polar regions... who gives a damn whether u care??????
...I just plain don't like butterflies.
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Ever heard of the ecosystem? If one species is lost, it could really screw things up for the rest of the species left.
Monarch Butterflies are poisonous. Any animal that consumes them gets very, very sick. So most of the Monarch's natural predators stay clear and eat other insects. They also only consume liquid, so they aren't important in the sense that certain other insects are important. (Breaking down wood, pollinating plants, etc.)
So, important to the ecosystem? Not likely.
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thats not the whole point of it....whether or not they have a sizeable population we cant sacrifice animals for our fun or religion for that matter
Legally, that means we can. Since goats have no legal rights (since they are not an endangered species, which I believe should be protected by all costs) what happens to them is none of my business.
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There are plenty of dogs and cats (actually too many), but by law in this country, we are not allowed to be cruel to them or to sacrifice them. Just because an animal isn't an endangered species doesn't mean you should abuse them.
In this country, it's unlawful to abuse or use animals in sacrifical practices. In other countries, these animals are not born with these rights, and are therefore subject to whatever torture, sacrifice may or may not befall them. I doubt these sacrifices are in abundance, and they really don't hinder the goat's population. And a goat sacrifice cannot be considered torture or abuse. It's murder.
All in all, if you want these animals to have special rights, you fight for them because they can't fight for themselves legally. Then and only then will I be against that typeof animal cruelty. I support legislation, not assumed symathy rights.
Polar bears are really endagered because of water pollutiion and hunting, not global warming.
climate warming hits hard in cold reghions partly because of albedo feedback...snow and ice have a very high albedo they both relflect a lot of solar enery..but as heat melts snow and ice, darker less reflective land or water is exposed..more heat is absorbed giving rise to further melting and warming..and this happens because of the CO2 induced global warming!!!![
quote]And monarch butterflies? Who cares? Man I hate butterflies.[/quote] these butterflies are also found in polar regions... who gives a damn whether u care??????
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It's not as if goats lack in population.
thats not the whole point of it....whether or not they have a sizeable population we cant sacrifice animals for our fun or religion for that matter
Dont let ur studies interfere with ur education!!!!!
I think what sudha is concerned about here in this case is animal cruelty, not the rarity of the species. There are plenty of dogs and cats (actually too many), but by law in this country, we are not allowed to be cruel to them or to sacrifice them. Just because an animal isn't an endangered species doesn't mean you should abuse them.
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Polar bears are really endagered because of water pollutiion and hunting, not global warming.
But global warming certainly doesn't help either. The amount of ice for them to live on is shrinking and thinning, making hunting harder for them. And locals and scientists have found that polar bear populations are shrinking because of this. And yes, pollution is also harming polar bears. Click this link for more info: http://www.defenders.org/wildlife/new/threatspb.html As you mentioned, poaching is a problem too, and here's more info on that: http://www.defenders.org/wildlife/new/pbearpoaching.html
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And monarch butterflies? Who cares? Man I hate butterflies.
Ever heard of the ecosystem? If one species is lost, it could really screw things up for the rest of the species left.
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im just curious but do you poeple.... yes and i mean it when i say you people....think of yourselves at the same level as animals????
Well, like I said before, animals don't really need the all of the rights we have, (the right to vote, drive, free speech, etc.), but they deserve basic rights, like those given to infants and mentally disabled people. (sorry if that sounds crude, I can't think of any other way to put it) We believe that animals have interests in living their lives and avoiding pain and suffering, and that we should respect those interests. Like for example, an elephant calf, if she had the choice, would stay with her family her whole life, and we should respect that and not steal her and brutally train her for the circus. So basically, in the respect that us and animals both have interests in living our lives the way we want to and avoiding pain and suffering, yes; we are on the same basic level. If you want to learn more about animal rights, I suggest that you read the book Animal Liberation by Peter Singer (or The Case for Animal Rights by Tom Regan) and check out the following websites: http://www.animal-rights.com/ http://www.peta.org/about/faq.asp http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=129 http://www.askcarla.com/
Contact me (through Noisemail) if you have any other questions about animal rights. I'd be glad to answer them.
Originally posted by sudha: in southeast alsia esp nepal and also in the gulf and musliom countries animal sacrifice is still so rpevalent...its really so sad...they sacrifice goats for everything..
So? It's not as if goats lack in population. Besides, like clpo said, it isn't unheard of for animals to defend themselves.
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did u know that polar bears are endangered because of global warming and so are monarch butterflies???
Polar bears are really endagered because of water pollutiion and hunting, not global warming.
And monarch butterflies? Who cares? Man I hate butterflies.
in southeast alsia esp nepal and also in the gulf and musliom countries animal sacrifice is still so rpevalent...its really so sad...they sacrifice goats for everything..
now ramzan is coming i can even begin to think of how many animals will be slaughtered.....its just so sad!!!!!!
did u know that polar bears are endangered because of global warming and so are monarch butterflies???
Dont let ur studies interfere with ur education!!!!!
Babies and mentally disabled people are endowed rights under the Constitution.
But that is just one country, some countries, for example, allow euthanization of people such as ill babies or the mentally disabled, and that violates their right to life, does it not? (don't turn this into a euthanasia debate, it's just an example) And surely many other countries in the world do not give the people who live there the same rights as Americans. Heck, slavery is more common in the world now then it was back before the civil war (and child slavery as well)!
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And in the case of the infants, they will eventually grow up to be able to fight for rights.
We're talking about here and now, are we not? By the time people become adults, they usually cannot remember being an infant, so they cannot say for sure how it felt to be one.
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Where did I say ask? I said fight. Last I checked, most dogs and cats can still cause bodily harm to humans. I'm talking about what those bears did.
Chickens are weaker animals than dogs, cats or bears. And they're weighed down by excess bulk from selective breeding, probably the most they could do is peck your ankles off. But then again, on some farms chickens have part of their beaks cut off, so they cannot even do that. Cows and pigs however have demonstrated that they do not wish to be slaughtered, as has been shown in the numerous cases of cows and pigs escaping from slaughterhouses in many different countries (including the US and UK).
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That's like taking a paraplegic kid with an IQ of 40 and saying he's exactly the same as Einstein. Not true.
But they have the same basic human rights, do they not? You make the assuption that we want animals to have all of, and the exact same rights as, humans; which is untrue. We want basic rights for animals, which include the right not to be abused and exploited and to live the life they prefer (usually a wild and free one, except in the case of domestic animals like dogs, since they would be happier with us than in the wild). We don't want to give animals the right to vote or drive, that would be just silly.
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