i'm a peta2 street team member, a vegetarian, and animal activist. i don't think animals should be treated exactly like humans, but we should at least treat them with decency.

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I have a question, what makes you guys eat chicken, or meat, and say no to eating a dolphin, or a rabbit?

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There are billions of chickens and cows. We eat them because their meat is cheap and easy to come by. Dolphins on the other hand have small numbers and if we did eat them it would be too expensive and they'd probably go extinct.

I have a question, what makes you guys eat chicken, or meat, and say no to eating a dolphin, or a rabbit?

Maybe you guys eat anything. But there's a lot of people who decide to eat only the "normal" animals, and say no to others.

What do you think?

Animals are living things, and just like humans, they deserve just as much respect and care. (Not that i'm excluding humans from being animals, because if you want to get technical about it, humans are animals, but that's something different...) Even though people want to protect cows and chickens and stuff, I'm more concerned about wild animals like tigers and polar bears. I think they're more important, because cows and chicken are bred for slaughter, they have but one purpose. Though I do not condone the treatment that they receive during the process, like veal, you can't stop the killing of cows and chickens unless everyone in the world wants to find an alternative to meat and eggs.

But I do want to save the tigers!!!! I love endangered species...

On the subject of corn, I meant that the fields could be planted to produce for humans needs when animal exploitation is reduced.

I have heard of people communicating with plants- "Talks with Trees" is a book on it. I was going to but it, but people overprice things terribly and so I browsed until the store kicked me out.

As far as the hunting- I've seen many a time where the animal is trailed, bleeding and in pain when a lousy shot hunter misses. If people hunt, they should at least do some target practice.

I dont think that its wrong for humans to eat animals- or any other animal to eat animals. However, I believe that when its possible to exist without killing that changes in habit should be made.

As far as using this computer kills animals- Indirectly, yes, I'm sure it does. Its unavoidable- The person a few feet away from me smoking a cigar is, potentially, killing me.

Douglas Adams? Love him. He has new work? I thought he was dead. Any new titles? If the Hitchikers Guide To the Galaxy wasnt so huge, I would have taken it on the plane.. Now I want to indulge...

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But go ahead, eat calves and 45 day old chickens, see if I care.

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Then don't even bother trying to change us.

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antibiotics on the other hand is natural in my book.. many animals eat natural things that work like antibiotics.. fungus, plants, bacteria etc.. all naturally.

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Yes, antibiotics are pretty much natural but the real problem in the use of antibiotics in intensive farming operations is antibiotic resistance in which possibly life-threatening bacteria become resistant to antibiotics.
Also, I'm pretty sure that berenelen never said that antibiotics were unnatural.

And all this talk of ARA's being terrorists...sure some of them are (but very few), but for the most part they are non-violent.
Let's look at the definition of terrorism, shall we?
terrorism, n: systematic covert warfare to produce terror for political coercion.

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"WorthWaitingFor, you can eat whatever you want, but you should at least educate yourself about the AR movement's side of it first"

umm i have, that is how i learned that the AR side is full of lies and deception.. why not take your own advice and educate yourself about AR.. it is obvious you haven't yet.

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I posted non-PETA sites and was respectful about it, what more do you want from me??? Hell, even tigercats12 agrees that the treatment of chickens in factory farms is cruel. (right tiger?) And how is the treatment of calves raised for veal humane? Did you look at the websites at all?

But go ahead, eat calves and 45 day old chickens, see if I care.

Along with the info on info on plants feeling pain would you like to point me towards more of your sources of info? I'm more than willing to change my viewpoint with some good proof so please do share your research. Trust me, I'm one of the most flexible minded people out there as long as the info is good.

"it seems that my source is shot down as being biased."

well, it was bias, that's a fact..

"Would it still be biased if I went to an anti-peta website?"

that depends.. i have seen anti-peta sites that were not anti-AR.. but it would definately be bias against PETA.. that is why i like using non biased sources.. court records, the AMA, the AVMA,the respected medical sources.. etc.

"My arguement is that injecting hormones and forcing reproduction is not natural."

extra hormones is unnatural, forced reproduction is natural, it happans with lions all the time. as far as hormones, not all farms use them, actually a lot of farms have moved away from things like BST these days.. antibiotics on the other hand is natural in my book.. many animals eat natural things that work like antibiotics.. fungus, plants, bacteria etc.. all naturally.

" Sports are no longer considered survival of the fittest because of artificial strength"

BTW, it is illegal to use steriods in sports, that is why they test for them..

"So we're stronger and higher up on the food scale than apes, but we can compare ourselves to them"

first ARA do it all the time, so it is fair for me to the same(2 way street remember) and apes have evolved a long way to, they use tools, eat medicine etc.. so why not. your argument was that humans show compasion, i said so do many animals.. just basing it off of your statements.

"Lying? I'm being accused as a liar now? If I'm lying I don't know it."

umm can you read? this is another problem with ARA they conveniantly "miss" info.. if you look i said and i quote"not saying you are doing that, just making a point."

try and keep up please...

"But explain all the images, the video clips, the investigations, the legal documents that can be found anywhere on slaughterhouses."

ok based on all of those things, most of the images, videos etc coming from AR groups have been proven fasle, or proven misrepresentations in court.. many of the images are quite old and do not accurately show what is common practice now.. many of the photos have been staged(admited in court)many of the investigations have been overturned, etc.. true there are cruel slaughter houses out there, i have never denied that, what i have said is AR groups often fake and/or lie about the findings.. which by the way is a proven fact.. granted there have been a few AR investigations that have turned of the cruel truth, but in many of those cases the AR group was 1 step behind another group and simply jumped on the band wagon.

" Does the fact that animals are mistreated before slaughter not even bother you? "

wow you don't read do you.. sure it bothers me, but i like to live in the real world, and in the real world, BASED ON AR NUMBERS, THE NUMBER OF SLAUGHTER HOUSES, CONSIDERED CRUEL THROUGH INVESTIGATIONS AND FINES, EQUAL LESS THAN 15% OF ALL SLAUGHTERHOUSES IN THE COUNTRY.. remember that is based on AR NUMBERS!

"but it still seems wrong to accuse the entire AR movement as a bunch of liars."

well in all my years dealing with AR groups i have yet to find one that doesn't lie consistantly.. please prove me wrong.

"I think it does."

" Murderers may be screwing up the world, but they still deserve respect as a human being by giving them a trial."

no they don't, they are tried to prove they are murderers not based on human respect. if they admit they are the killer, they are on trial to be sentenced.

"True."

so them reaffrim, you do not recieve any medical treatment at all?? no advil, no doctors nothing?
sure....

"I think by the way today's cow moans and screams before slaughter might indicate that it doesn't want to be eaten"

lol cows moan and scream when they are nervous, they do the same when you are simply corraling them to be moved, etc.. true they might be stressed, but i think we both know cows do not simply assume they are about to be eaten nor do they grasp what is going on, they are simply stressed and confused in that situation..

"I don't recall any research on plants and pain however."

i do it was quite interesting, i will try and find it for you.

I worship Douglas Adams.

"Have you perchance read any of Douglas Adams' books lately? I'm not quite sure which book it is in the Hitchiker's series, but it tells of a cow that offers itself to be slaughtered. Its quite amusing."


I just wanted to say that THHGTTG is a l33t series.

tigercats, it seems almost pointless to debate with you because as soon as I mention something it seems that my source is shot down as being biased. So tell me, what source isn't biased? Would it still be biased if I went to an anti-peta website?

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no we haven't.. natural selection/survival of the fittest.. we have evolved to become the animal at the top of the food chain, hence making us the fittest. whether we hunt of farm doesn't matter.

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Darwin laws were created in mid to late 1800s. His laws were meant to explain evolution in nature. My arguement is that injecting hormones and forcing reproduction is not natural. Something that is natural is not produced or changed artifically (dictionaries are wonderful things) and the hormones that are injected into farm animals are synthetic.
Synthetic = unnatural in my book at least.Can you see my whole artificial arguement here? The whole survival of the fittest has long disappeared. Even with steroids! Sports are no longer considered survival of the fittest because of artificial strength. I don't believe that Darwin could have predicted this, and I don't think that his laws apply in this age with humans at least. You don't see monkeys doing steroids now do you?

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apes have shown compassion, yet still kill and eat other animals..and anything can live on a completely unnatural diet due to technology, that does not make it better.

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So we're stronger and higher up on the food scale than apes, but we can compare ourselves to them? This arguement has to be a two way road for it to work.

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agreed, BUT opinionated does not equal lying. if someone is lying to build up their opinion then they don't deserve respect. not saying you are doing that, just making a point.

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Lying? I'm being accused as a liar now? If I'm lying I don't know it. Who knows? Maybe I'm some little nieve kid with a paper bag over my head. But explain all the images, the video clips, the investigations, the legal documents that can be found anywhere on slaughterhouses. Or is this an entirely different subject for you? Does the fact that animals are mistreated before slaughter not even bother you? I guess it might not, but it still seems wrong to accuse the entire AR movement as a bunch of liars.

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the simple fact that they are all people does not grant them respect.

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I think it does. Murderers may be screwing up the world, but they still deserve respect as a human being by giving them a trial.

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so then you always deny medical treatment right?

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True. Most medicine was tested on animals at some point. With more technology this won't be necessary and I'm looking foward to that day. I guess I'm just stuck in the wrong era.

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how do you know a cow minds that it is being eaten?? i wouldn't mind because i would be dead, just like the cow... also show me that plants don't mind.. plants show signs of stress, pain etc...

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Have you perchance read any of Douglas Adams' books lately? I'm not quite sure which book it is in the Hitchiker's series, but it tells of a cow that offers itself to be slaughtered. Its quite amusing. I think by the way today's cow moans and screams before slaughter might indicate that it doesn't want to be eaten... Just a thought. Oh and you'll have to deal with a frutarian with the plant thing. I don't recall any research on plants and pain however. If so, great for the fruitarians.

"I said live naturally and free from human harm. "

once again, this is impossible.. you are simply repeating an argument with no merit.

"That doesn't contradict one another. "

yes, it still does, no matter how many times you say it.

"I never said that it was wrong for other animals to eat animals."

then, since humans are animals, you should have no problem with us eating meat.

"Humans have compassionate minds and bodies that can survive without meat because of technology."

apes have shown compassion, yet still kill and eat other animals..and anything can live on a completely unnatural diet due to technology, that does not make it better.

"The basic laws of nature (or Darwin's laws which I think is what you're talking about) talk about natural selection. As humans, we've already screwed up the whole natural selection system."

no we haven't.. natural selection/survival of the fittest.. we have evolved to become the animal at the top of the food chain, hence making us the fittest. whether we hunt of farm doesn't matter.

"We've broken the laws of natural selection because we have altered to suit human needs."

untrue, we have evolved to the point we don't need to actively hunt. there is nothing unnatural about it.. it is simply evolution.

"Vegans/vegetarians/animal rights activits are all people."

the simple fact that they are all people does not grant them respect.

"It doesn't matter whether or not you choose to respect me for being vegan as long as you respect me as an opinionated person."

agreed, BUT opinionated does not equal lying. if someone is lying to build up their opinion then they don't deserve respect. not saying you are doing that, just making a point.

on the point of homework, it seems the ARA here really need to start doing it. most of their claims concerning medical research and cures that didn not involve animal testing are lies. also based on almost every RESPECTED person in the scientific and medical fields, animal testing is both beneficial and needed at this point in time.

as far as Dr.Bross, his claims have been proven false on a number of occasions he was also a fan of AR, so i wonder where his bias fell.. funny how the majority of respected people disagree with his testimony.

"Therefore why should countless animals suffer when the results could be faulty?"

because the results as a whole have proven anything BUT faulty..

"I myself just find causing pain for human reasons unethical and so that's why I take part in AR. "

so then you always deny medical treatment right?

"I frankly am against PETA right now for some of their campaigns and I admit to seeing a lot of faulty proof"

that was an honest statement, and i agree with you.

"LOL, right....Apparently you have yet to realize that the AR movement is not totally run by all of the "mainstream" groups(PeTa, ALF, etc.), right?"

actually most AR groups base their info after the info from the larger groups like PETA. also yes i have known that there are literally thousands of AR groups, and i have yet to find a truthful one.

"Oh? So animals do not have the right to live freely without being needlessly exploited by humans?"

nope.. do humans have the right not to be killed by lions?

"Based on what?"

evolution, science, survival of the fittest,adaptation,etc..

"To an extent that is true, but there are much more efficient ways to control the animal populations. "

i have heard this BS before.. actually hunting and management is the only proven and consistant way...

"For example, we could stop ridding areas of natural predators"

actually this is rarely if ever done these days.. i'm not sure where you are getting your info, but the large natural north american predators have been protected to a degree.. wolves, bears, cougars, etc.. it is illegal to simply kill them these days.. they have very low hunting quotas, and in many cases can only be killed or moved if they present a direct danger to humans or livestock. so nice try. granted in the past the killing off of predators was the norm and cause many of the problems we have today.

"Many places relocate predators, simply because they want to allow an annual hunt."

untrue, this is not a common practice, and when it does happen to any degree it is rare.

"Wow, you seem to generalize quite a bit...."

again, it would be an observation NOT a generalization.

"Could you clarify this, please? I'm not sure what you are trying to say..."

if all life was equal from every aspect, it would be wrong for anything to kill anything.. humans could not kill for food, lions could not kill humans or zebra, cougars coould not kill deer, sharks could not kill seals etc.. if all life was 100% equal, then no other animal would have the right to take the life of anything else. thus everything would die.

"How is this "inhumane"?"

i would not call that inhumane, stupid maybe.. childish, uncaring..

"Once again, there are better ways in which to alleviate these problems,"

please enlighten us with your great knowledge on this topic.. but don't mention predators or birth control, both have been tried with little or no success.. begin............

" As has the "humans are omnivores" argument"

actually this has never been proven false.. no credible scienticic finding has shown otherwise.

"Anyway, one cannot justify their diet simply by saying that is what they are "meant" to eat."

why not?

"therefore, isnt there a "canine race" "

ok i will give you that one.... feel better...

"just because we have ripped a hole in the ozone layer we outgrow these?"

no, nor have i ever said or implied that we should.. as a matter of fact i keep saying humans are animals.

"I may indeed be "nuts,"- it has been my only source of protein for over a year."

well then, in your case, the saying you are what you eat, IS actually true...

"Many times an animal will be hit in the paw/hoof/foot or other non-lethal spot. "

what kind of retarded hunters have you been talking too?

"Everything must be respected, from an ant to a blade of grass. I live by the concept that the life of any creature, be it an ant, toad, or mosquito is equal to human life. Every object that has blossomed from nature is equal."

so then how do you justify the animals that die daily for you to eat and live? or are you a supernatural being.. the computer you are own causes animal and plant deaths, the tires on your car, the road that you drive/ride on, everything causes death.. you are sounding more and more like a liar or a hypocrite.

"That it takes 16 lbs of feed to produce one lb of meat?"

what kind of meat? rabbit, cow, fish, chicken, pig, what.. please be specific...

"All of that corn could be used for human consumption."

you say you work on a farm then make that comment..?? lol lol lol you do know that the majority of feed fed to animals is not human grade crop, right.. corn soybeans grain etc...

"However, instead of overbreeding them for our use as food, why not eat what does not mind being eaten"

how do you know a cow minds that it is being eaten?? i wouldn't mind because i would be dead, just like the cow... also show me that plants don't mind.. plants show signs of stress, pain etc...

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So, what do you all think of the Animal Rights(AR) movement?

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I think it is confused.

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Do you feel that animals have inherent rights?

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No, I do not.

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If you do not believe animals have rights, do you still believe all humans have inherent rights and are deserving of moral consideration?

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I hate the way you said that but I do think people should be respected.

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If you do, what distinctly human characteristic do we all possess which makes us deserving of rights/moral consideration, but not other sentient beings?

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The fact that a human is what I am.

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toxic fox, you my friend need some help.. not only are you umm, nuts.. but you have no grasp on facts.. BTW animals are grouped into species not race..just thought you should know.

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We refer to the "human race", therefore, isnt there a "canine race" etc? They are not only grouped into species, but kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, andgenus as well. We are listed under the same classifications; just because we have ripped a hole in the ozone layer we outgrow these?

I did say that I dont mind people questioning my credibility. I can help enough creatures without forcefully convincing people of my views. I may indeed be "nuts,"- it has been my only source of protein for over a year.

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this is wrong.what isnt wrong is hunting.its is quick and relitively painless for the animal."

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Not always. What about the times when an animal is shot more then once? Many times an animal will be hit in the paw/hoof/foot or other non-lethal spot. They cant run away from the attacker, nor can they fight very well. What about when a human comes barreling down on you, shoots out your knee then comes in for the kill? Painless, hmm?

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WHY? i respect people who deserve respect.. the fact that someone is vegan has earned them nothing..

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I do not ask to be respected for my eating choices. I ask to be respected as a living creature. Everything must be respected, from an ant to a blade of grass. I live by the concept that the life of any creature, be it an ant, toad, or mosquito is equal to human life. Every object that has blossomed from nature is equal.

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wow, aside from the "animals have feelings and can feel pain" comments, non of the AR minions has made a valid, or factual point..(

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What about mine- That it takes 16 lbs of feed to produce one lb of meat? I live in the country, I'm surrounded by fields or soybeans, corn and other produce, I know about the care of sheep, cows, horses, pigs, chickens.. I work on a farm, have lived in nothing but rural area- I know how much of the acres of feedlot corn go to the steers in the pastures'cross the road. All of that corn could be used for human consumption. I'm not saying that we should starve cows! However, instead of overbreeding them for our use as food, why not eat what does not mind being eaten.

Furthermore, I am not a minion. I'm just compassionate.

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Two animal rights activists were protesting the cruelty of sending pigs to a slaughterhouse in Bonn by freeing a captive herd. Suddenly all two thousand of pigs stampeded through the gate they were opening, and trampled the hapless protesters to death.

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Heh heh.

"i think it is a joke run by hypocritical idiots to trick people out of their money.. the animal rights movement is so full of lies and mistruths that it can only be taken seriously by misinformed people with no knowledgeable grasp on animals."

LOL, right....Apparently you have yet to realize that the AR movement is not totally run by all of the "mainstream" groups(PeTa, ALF, etc.), right?

"but they do not have the rights proposed by the wacko AR community.."

Oh? So animals do not have the right to live freely without being needlessly exploited by humans?

"why focus SO much attention on animals?"

Why not?

"animals are inferior to us. "

Based on what?

"this is wrong.what isnt wrong is hunting.its is quick and relitively painless for the animal."

Heh, so that makes it "ok"?

"it also benifits the forest and animal population."

The end doesn't justify the means.

"if hunters wouldnt reduce the population there would be too many animals for the little land thats left"

To an extent that is true, but there are much more efficient ways to control the animal populations. For example, we could stop ridding areas of natural predators, merely so there will be more "game" to hunt. Many places relocate predators, simply because they want to allow an annual hunt.

"ARA are either liars or they have no clue that they are believing liars, either way they have earned no respect.. "

Wow, you seem to generalize quite a bit....

"if all life is equal then then everything dies."

Could you clarify this, please? I'm not sure what you are trying to say...

"right like the end of all pets"

How is this "inhumane"?

"the vegetation and the wildlife does in fact suffer due to lack of hunters in many areas."

Once again, there are better ways in which to alleviate these problems, rather than allowing people to partake in yearly hunts..

"wrong, as a matter of fact this has been proven false many times. "

As has the "humans are omnivores" argument...Anyway, one cannot justify their diet simply by saying that is what they are "meant" to eat.