why is it that in america you can join the army at 18 n go to war yet at that same age they give the resposibility of protecting a country n its people to an 18 year old n that same 18 year old cant walk into a pub n have a drink without first being harrassed by the bartender about his age,(he can loose a leg while at war bt cant take a dink,how ironical!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

quote:

Originally posted by Hydrok:

I understand what the good Doc is saying, an I understand that you have the internet equivalent of your fingers stuffed in your ears screaming out your same line the entire time... reminds me of a certain American president.

ZING!

Speed, I'm not going to lie, I get a kick out of arguing and posting, but not becaues I'm stroking my ego.

I normally don't post on topics I don't care about. 90% of the time I post I post because I have a strong opinion on the topic. I've been posting on sites like this for over five years now and I've developed some really strong positions by trial and error. If someone proves my position wrong, then I conceed. I use that to re-align my opinion and then keep going having become stronger because I was proven wrong. Sometimes I post as a devils advocate, to get people to think. I end up on both sides of relgious debates, attacking the positision of Atheists and Christians, and supporting either side depending on what I'm trying to get across.

But I don't just come on here and yell at people because it makes me feel good. If that's really what you do then it explains why you stopped posting anything relevent a day or two ago. When you mature a bit come back and try again. Otherwise, stop disrupting our intellectual development here.

So now your saying that your poor debate skills are really a ploy, and your brilliant apathy on everything somehow gives you credit... I had a hard time putting all of that together because obviously my brain is not nearly as fucked up as yours.

See what you really have is this case of mental masturbation, you get so excited in your brain that you have out-witted someone else that you just prematurely ejaculate out your mouth, or in this case your fingers. It really isn't a pretty sight.

I understand what the good Doc is saying, an I understand that you have the internet equivalent of your fingers stuffed in your ears screaming out your same line the entire time... reminds me of a certain American president.

I read what you said, that was my conclusion, wich you probably didn't understand either.
And yes, I am so strongly convinced of my righteousness on some issues that I will label my points as common sense. If that bothers you enough to provoke that kind of reaction then I'm very pleased with the results of my technique.

That was not an intent to discredit you, I don't feel that is needed. discrediting someone involves them having credibility in the first place, from my point of view you have none.

you may not have noticed something about me, in wich case i'd like to make it clear, on lots of issues I don't debate, debating involves the possibility of being wrong, I state what I believe is the truth and enjoy reading people responses to it. That could be called prepotence, I choose to call it realism.
You know just as well as I do that you're not on here to share opinions and have inteligent conversation, you're on here to feed your ego through debating, it's very pleasurable to maintain a heated argument with someone, and the better one's responses are, the larger his ego grows.
I look for this, sometimes consciously, and sometimes unconsciuosly, but I'm aware of it, and I know that in truth, I don't really give a sh*t about most of the things I talk about, and I just use them as ego-munchies.
From reading what you write, how you write it, and how you talk to others I deduce you do the exact same as me.

Notice I'm doing it right now? I just went of topic here, but I think it was necessary/interesting to do so, as the conversation has been shifting is this direction for a while now.

The other possibility is that neither of us is understanding what the other is trying to say, in wich case this is just absurd

quote:

you see, my point(it's ridiculous that this needs explaining, i would have thought both of you, regardless of holding views contrary to common sense,

Oh get off your goddamn high horse. Speed have you noticed that your whole arguement has now devolved into saying "You're so blind you can't see the light! I don't know why you can't see common sense!" That's not an arguement, it's you mindlessly repeating that you think your right.

quote:

even applying the statement to a debate through ssrcasm shows that you give it some validity, otherwise you wouldn't have recurred to sarcasm in the first place, as straight forward afirmations have more value towards proving a point.

What sarcasm? What are you talking about. Read what I said:
"That was my point EXACTLY. France is no more a nation of drunkards than the US is a nation of foaming-at-the-mouth gun nuts. To respond to your last sentence there, owning a gun and being a criminal or murderer are two VERY different things."
Where's the sarcasm? I said that France is not a nation of drunks, and the US is not a nation of psychotic gun crazies. There's zero sarcasm there.

And in any case, your statement that about "ssrcasm shows that you give it some validity" is just BS. You're floundering. You attack my debating "skills" and then post crap like that in order to discredit me?

Hey doc... did you hear something? My brain tends not to hover on things without credibility so I can't be sure.

the silence = weekend
i try not to touch the computer on weekends

I'm pretty sure you won nothing, and you probably won't if it depends on your debating skills.

you see, my point(it's ridiculous that this needs explaining, i would have thought both of you, regardless of holding views contrary to common sense, would be inteligent enough to understand) is that even applying the statement to a debate through ssrcasm shows that you give it some validity, otherwise you wouldn't have recurred to sarcasm in the first place, as straight forward afirmations have more value towards proving a point. And even while accepting sarcasm as a common instrument in deabte of any sort, the human brain does not tend to hover on issues it gives no credibility, thus i believe that your statement about rabid gun lovers holds atleast some weight in your mind.

I would agree with that... the silence is most certainly deafening.

quote:

Originally posted by speed:

quote:

the US is a nation of foaming-at-the-mouth gun nuts.

I never said it was, but you just did, and that sheds some light on you're real thoughts on the matter.

I'm pretty sure I just won that one, ha.

quote:

Originally posted by speed:

quote:

the US is a nation of foaming-at-the-mouth gun nuts.

I never said it was, but you just did, and that sheds some light on you're real thoughts on the matter.

*Tosses Bull Shit Flag*

Go back and try that post again.

quote:

the US is a nation of foaming-at-the-mouth gun nuts.

I never said it was, but you just did, and that sheds some light on you're real thoughts on the matter.

quote:

well i hope he keeps them in that safe and doesn't have any bad habits regarding guns

Bad habits meaning...? They aren't kept in there loaded, if that's what you mean. But like I said, the only things they are used for are gun shows and target practice, but neither happen very often. And the safe isn't obvious, either. There's no way those guns could be used by anyone other than my uncle, considering what kind of safe it is and the fact that only he knows the combination. And while he is an NRA member, he's not the type to drive around with a shotgun in his truck unless he's going hunting.

quote:

that's a stereotype, you obviously have no knowledge whatsoever on european culture. Wine is popular in france, but the alcoholism index is lower than in the US. You see, drinking a glass of wine with a meal and being a drunkard are two very different things.

That was my point EXACTLY. France is no more a nation of drunkards than the US is a nation of foaming-at-the-mouth gun nuts. To respond to your last sentence there, owning a gun and being a criminal or murderer are two VERY different things.

quote:

Must I asume rationality is being a NRA activist or something of the likes?
If you have read anything I have written so far you should know otherwise, I take you don't know how to read.

No, you dont' have to agree with me, but it's nice if your response to a point isn't simple "Uggh, that's so repulsive it makes me nauscious". I really dislike it when people use emotionally loaded words and phrases, there's so much sensationalism.

quote:

By that logic the French need for wine shows that thier culture is full of depression and has a tradition of substance reliance.

that's a stereotype, you obviously have no knowledge whatsoever on european culture. Wine is popular in france, but the alcoholism index is lower than in the US. You see, drinking a glass of wine with a meal and being a drunkard are two very different things.
I have beer with my meals because i enjoy it, but I don't have a taste for keg party's and ethilic coma's, whereas lots of people that don't usually go near alcohol will drink irresponsibly whenever they can and end up looking at their reflection in the toilet.

quote:

I'm glad you finally revealed to us that you think with your gut reaction more than you do with rational thought and reason.

Must I asume rationality is being a NRA activist or something of the likes?
If you have read anything I have written so far you should know otherwise, I take you don't know how to read.
That did score good on Originality though, good job.

quote:

where do stolen guns come from?

The same place that stolen cars used in crimes come from. LEGAL, LAW ABIDING owners.

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a rifle in every home... unhhh my stomach just twisted around.
...
ungh... *stomach spasms at the thought of it*

I'm glad you finally revealed to us that you think with your gut reaction more than you do with rational thought and reason.

quote:

dunno, but that need for gun ownership people express just shows that american culture is full of fear and repressed aggresivity.
atleast that's my interpretation.

By that logic the French need for wine shows that thier culture is full of depression and has a tradition of substance reliance. American culture IS agressive, historically. We're pioneers and settlers. Problems have been arising ever since we started trying to repress that agressivity rather than accept is and utilize it as a nation.

quote:

I don't think so, for one, we are the longest standing democratic regime on earth, and i believe a culture capable of sustaining that isn't one to be questioned easily.

Have you ever considered that one of the reasons America has sustained it is because of a certain level of aggressivity and violence in our culture? Passiviness and pacifism are not virtues in my eyes.

ungh... *stomach spasms at the thought of it*

well i hope he keeps them in that safe and doesn't have any bad habits regarding guns

Speed, if Strangelove's figures are accurate, we've already got enough registered weapons to equip 2/3 of the American populace. There may not be a weapon in every household, but there are currently enough out there for it. Heck, my uncle has a gun safe filled with pistols, rifles, and even a couple of shot guns. I don't even remember how many guns he has in that safe. I doubt he even uses any of them for anything other than gun shows.

where do stolen guns come from?

a rifle in every home... unhhh my stomach just twisted around.

dunno, but that need for gun ownership people express just shows that american culture is full of fear and repressed aggresivity.
atleast that's my interpretation.

the crime rate is directly related to culture, culture has an impact on gun ownership just the same as it does on the crime rate, so should we start questioning american culture? I don't think so, for one, we are the longest standing democratic regime on earth, and i believe a culture capable of sustaining that isn't one to be questioned easily.
There are many aspects of the culture wich can be question though, and i believe that these are the one's worth adressing and debating.

quote:

Originally posted by speed:
40% of death by firearms are homicides?

i don't think that's something you should state as a positive, the only firearm deaths that i could consider acceptable are suicide deaths, as i believe everyone has the right to do whatever he or she pleases with his or her life. That doesn't mean i think it is right to give up and kill yourself when things aren't going well but i think you get my point.

of that 39% that are homicides, only 4% are accidental, thus 35% are intentional.
you have a 35% ratio of intentionally caused death with firearms in the US.

what is good about that?

if the percentage was more like 10 or 15% it would be understandable, but 35%?

cmon... ¬¬

Your problem then is with crime rates, not gun ownership. As aforementioned, a very large portion of those homicides are gang-related. The guns typically used in those crimes are stolen, illegally owned, or illegally imported. 99% of legally owned firearms are never used in a crime.

We've got 214 million privately owned guns in the US. I think we should have a rifle in every home.

40% of death by firearms are homicides?

i don't think that's something you should state as a positive, the only firearm deaths that i could consider acceptable are suicide deaths, as i believe everyone has the right to do whatever he or she pleases with his or her life. That doesn't mean i think it is right to give up and kill yourself when things aren't going well but i think you get my point.

of that 39% that are homicides, only 4% are accidental, thus 35% are intentional.
you have a 35% ratio of intentionally caused death with firearms in the US.

what is good about that?

if the percentage was more like 10 or 15% it would be understandable, but 35%?

cmon... ¬¬