Jesus is the head and the Church is his body. If we just accept Jesus Christ and ignore the Church , you're rejecting half of the truth.
Wat if you found out about the Truth? that we should all be united. Not to be in different groups, opinions, and beliefs. There are so many groups claiming to be of the Truth. If you have unanswered questions by your pastors and ministers and priests, try me.. our Presiding Minister have taught us through wisdom and knowledge.. Do you know where the dead go? Whats the difference between soul and spirit? Do the dead still remember us? Where exactly are they now? .. i know.. do you know? the Bible answers all you questions about God and faith...thanks.

Im sorry if I offended u in some way, conflictzest, pls don’t get mad. Im jst posting the verses from the Bible which is the Truth.. as Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.(jn 14:6) but its nt you who should be offended.. but those who are deliberately “ leading” a flock of people to their own “right” path not Christ’s path.
I’m just posting the verses for us and others to read.
(Luke 12:51 – Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division.)
(Jn. 11:6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.)
(Matthew 18:7 – Woe unto the world because of offenses! For it must needs be that offenses come; but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh!)

well, czest, id like to think that the group I’ve joined is a black “cult” as what you were trying to suggest- but no..
first of all, let’s get the real meaning of cult . We often use the word in association with negativity.
The word is of Spanish origin culto meaning religious group. Faction. Sect.

iv observed this group for many years since I was in my college days.. and, now that im married...i found nothing wrong as of this time in the teachings coz everything as in every thing is Biblically based.. as what Christ have commanded - to abide and continue in His commandments.. the presiding minister is unlike any other who uses men-pleasing words, the slow, smooth, suave way of speaking. He exposes the perverted doctrines of other groups for the members to realize that they’re being misled. We have a basis in faith and that’s the Bible. As Jesus Christ was exposing the false doctrines of the Pharisees and Saducees, the latter got offended because Christ was doing what he was suppose to do.. to reprove.. and to expose the Truth to all. To do the will of the Father. so later they hated and killed Christ without a cause. (Psalms 69:4 and John 15:25) – But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause

Anyways, They have a television show called the old Path..or Ang Dating Daan here in the Philippines..and they have this Live question and answer portion that other denominations can ask questions regarding religion, faith.... it just so happened that all of the answers have verses to back up.. meaning the Bible is answering the questions of the audience.. and its just like Bro. Soriano has memorized the entire Bible (..Luke 21:13-15 – And it shall turn to you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.) imagining the whole nation would able to watch and hear the answers straight from the Bible without any video editing? Boo boos and what have you. What you see is what you get. No hypocrisy. No script. God is angry at those ppl who are perverting his doctrines. Wont you get angry if somebody perverted your own story??
If you’re curious about our group named Members of the Church of God International.. they have a website.. if you’re interested to research.

Before I joined this group I did not just raise my hand and pray to accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour.. I went through a series of indoctrination sessions – it is where you get to hear the main or the basic doctrines of our Lord Jesus Christ. It’s just like knowing the house rules before joining a club. If you accept it, then you will be baptized. Every thing is Biblically based. No fees. No donations. As what is stated in Matthew 10:8 Freely you receive, freely give. Truth is supposed to be free; its not for sale. Jesus is not for sale.

Tithing or giving of the 10% is a commandment for Israelites in which the Levites who received the commandment to take tithes from brethren, not Christians as what we are called today.
The most widely used verse to take tithes from anybody is in Malachi 3:8-10
But In Hebrews 7:5 – And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law…
But the priesthood have been changed.. in which we, on our Christian time, have only one High Priest – Jesus Christ (Heb. 7:24)
In Heb. 7:12 – For the priesthood (Levites) being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
So what is the law for Christians? – 2 Cor 9:7 – Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Once saved always saved. Salvation cannot be taken back by God. Once you receive Jesus Christ, you will be saved no matter what. God will not reject those who have received him as saviour forevermore – these are not according to the Bible.
The bible says Christians are partakers of Christ’s sufferings (1peter 4:12-13)
There are people who fall away or back slide when they experience temptations and sufferings after knowing God because they chose the cares of and love the life of the world rather than God’s way of life (Heb. 6:4-8)
Even the apostle Judas Escariot, the treasurer, who is already a disciple have back slided and sold Christ for the Romans.. he hanged himself because of conscience.. now there – do you think Christ still loved him? And forgave him on what he did? There are ppl who after receiving Christ, turn their backs again from God.
(In 2Peter 2:20 – for if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, and the latter end is worse with them than the beginning)
in Hebrews 6:8 but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is near unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Salvation is to be worked on – Philippians 2:12 wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my(paul’s) presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORk out your own salvation with fear and trembling . it sounds contradictory to the free gift of salvation, doesn’t it?coz there are two kinds of salvation – salvation from sin which is the free gift and salvation in the day of judgement if you’ve endured all the temptations and trials and if you’ve succeeded then the crown of life will be given nonetheless – it is what you call salvation from judgement.

2Chr. 15:2 - .. the Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you: but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.
God cannot lie whether he said this yesterday, it will stand in the present times. (Titus 1:2) If he said you leave Him , he will forsake you.

So even if you have faith, you can still sin. But there are two kinds of sins too. Read 1John 5:16 one unto death and one not unto death.

God has commanded his servants to abstain from certain foods, to be sober, to be healthy, to fast, to go to assemblies of fellow Christians, to sing, to pray, to hold his tongue.. to endure.. to hate this life of this world.. that is ruled by the Devil.

Vanity is my favorite sin – Al Pacino in Devil’s Advocate

quote:

Originally posted by conflictingzest:
First of all orangegoddess, I find it offensive that you would even suggest my pastor is lying to me. Do you know my pastor? or my church? do you know if i even go to church? maybe i taught myself what i know about christianity and if that were true you'd be calling me a liar, am i a liar?

Second, Where does it say that tithing is for the isrealites? I think you're mistaken on this, though i'm too lazy and tired to look up the references to debate you right now.

THird, Being saved from your sins also saves you from judgement. what are you being judged for? For your sins, get it? because sins are your offenses against God, God's not going to judge you on any other basis, just on how you followed him. I'm not saying we're not going through judgement but i'm saying we don't have to fret it because we know that by following christ and believing in him that we are saved and cleansed from our wrongs.

Fourth, The Verses you posted don't say we have to do good works to be saved, they say that good works are a result of being saved. Also the whole giving onto you according to your good works is talking about blessing, God will Bless us for good works not take away salvation (which he won't ever take away because that's not in his nature.)

Fifth, You Don't HAVE to tithe, you should but you don't HAVE TO. you're faith and salvation do not depend on tithing.

Finally, what church is it you're attending? it's starting to sound a bit like a cult.

Thanks, it stops me from having to post it all.

Let me paraphrase, I don't feel like looking up.

When you accept Jesus you become a new person no longer a slave to sin, can you serve two masters both God and Sin? no you must serve on or the other. You become a new being - and with that you are to let God renew your mind so you no longer seek things of this earth so you can know his perfect will for you.


Blah blah blah... Why I even bother I don't know, fighting for someone I'm fighting with seems like a constant problem for me.

First of all orangegoddess, I find it offensive that you would even suggest my pastor is lying to me. Do you know my pastor? or my church? do you know if i even go to church? maybe i taught myself what i know about christianity and if that were true you'd be calling me a liar, am i a liar?

Second, Where does it say that tithing is for the isrealites? I think you're mistaken on this, though i'm too lazy and tired to look up the references to debate you right now.

THird, Being saved from your sins also saves you from judgement. what are you being judged for? For your sins, get it? because sins are your offenses against God, God's not going to judge you on any other basis, just on how you followed him. I'm not saying we're not going through judgement but i'm saying we don't have to fret it because we know that by following christ and believing in him that we are saved and cleansed from our wrongs.

Fourth, The Verses you posted don't say we have to do good works to be saved, they say that good works are a result of being saved. Also the whole giving onto you according to your good works is talking about blessing, God will Bless us for good works not take away salvation (which he won't ever take away because that's not in his nature.)

Fifth, You Don't HAVE to tithe, you should but you don't HAVE TO. you're faith and salvation do not depend on tithing.

Finally, what church is it you're attending? it's starting to sound a bit like a cult.

A Christian is owned and ruled by God. He is a slave to God, a servant. I didnt say that i dont wanna be ruled God. A true Christian would know what is good work from good work of man. there are things that we think we are doing good to man and God.. but maybe you just dont realize that what you are doing is abominable in the eyes of the Lord.

so what is good and bad to God? maybe we're doing something bad to ppl but it is good in the sight of the Lord. So who would you follow? Pleasing God yet offending men? or pleasing men yet offending God?

Now, this is a real discussion.. if you’re discussing religion it must have a basis.. and in Christianity – the Bible is our basis coz it is the word of God.
Anyways, I don’t disagree with the verses that you posted. Triss .if it’s from the Bible it must be true.. but you haven’t also read the rest of the New testament. The pastors that are “leading us” just use verses to their own advantage...to their own convenience. They don’t fully use the Bible as a whole coz they’re afraid to lose members who gives tithes or offerings. Did you know that tithing is not for us Christians but for the Israelites? Tsk..Tsk.. How the world lieth in wickedness..1John5:19
To know a pastor that is deceiving you.. it is through his words. Pls read Colossians 2:4,8
And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with Enticing Words.. in verse 8 – Beware, lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Simple.. you wouldn’t know if someone is trying to deceive you.. how did Snow White get to bite the red apple – through nice words of the Evil Queen. How did Eve able to get a bite of the forbidden fruit? Through vain, enticing words also.

So,We know the ever most popular verse in the Bible John 3:16- For God so loved the world… thingy. They jst stop there and make a conclusion out of one line or verse. That you just believe and you’re SAVED!! Whoa!! Now there’s something you got to ask yourself.. if you believe in Christ, He will save you from wat? Let’s read Matt. 1:21
“And she (Mary) shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he SHALL SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS.
Save from wat? From sins.. not judgement.
And is that it? Just believing? Without works? This is the most famous and the most misinterpreted verse in Ephesians 4:8..For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:not of works, lest any man should boast.
And they stop there. But lets continue reading..
FOR WE ARE HIS WORKMANSHIP, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS, WHICH GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.
See? We are created for wat? For Good works that God ordained us to do. NOt the “good works” as wat common man would know.
Lets read James 2:24 Ye see then how that BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, AND NOT BY FAITH ONLY. Let’s go a lil bit lower in verse 26. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ALSO..
Another verse in Revelation 2:23 –
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am He which searcheth the reins and hearts: AND I WILL GIVE UNTO EVERY ONE OF YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR WORKS.

now you may say, these verses are not spoken from Christ himself but by James. But you see the apostles are appointed by God.. and have written the epistles because they’re appointed to write the commandment of God after Jesus Christ “died” already and risen up to heaven... in Icor.14:37 –
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge dat the things that I write unto you ARE THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD.
See? Do you wanna know MORe about God’s commandments? That’S WHAT you’re pastors are hiding the whole truth from you. Or maybe they’re also a victim of their own misinterpretation. You see in Proverbs 14:12
- There is a way which seemeth right unto a man; but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Man doesn’t know everything except God. Let’s take an example, a suitor. You and your parents are so into this guy that you all think he is so sincere, loving and responsible.. but after marrying that guy.. His true color revealed. He beats his wife. So even the wisest of all men will let his own knowledge and wisdom down.. Especially if the wisdom and knowledge is not from God. There is a wisdom that is from God and there’s the earthly worldy wisdom.

If you were to tell a story let’s say Cinderella.. let’s tke that story as an example. When the clock struck 12, Cinderella immediately run off leaving her glass slipper behind. We adults know wat really happened N why she had to sped off. But without the beginning and ending of the story .. wat conclusion would a kid get? Do you see my point?

There are so many commandments of God that are not being revealed to you by your so-called pastors. Why don’t you ask your pastor this. TEst him. If faith can save man and we don’t hav to work.. I don’t have to give tithes also.. coz tithing is good work. Let’s see what reaction can you get from him. Testing is a commandent – 1John4:1 – Beloved, believe nt every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Do you know how God wants us to pray? How we should dress? There are commandments for that too.. in the New Testament..
And also this.. going to Church services is a commandment too.
In Hebrews 10:25 – not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is, but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the Day approaching.
Some are too lazy to go to Church as in the place well it’s a test of endurance.. especially if the place is uncomfortable.. well you know what God is testing you. Coz in James 1:2-4 – My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;knowing this, that the TRYING of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that Ye May Be Perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

quote:

Whether you believ or not He is stil God whether you like it or not

quote:

testament

Thanks Ohmybex

Yes I spelled it wrong.

testament

Whoa, Whoa, Uh... I know I said I had stopped posting about religion but this is too much. You obviosly haven't studied much of the new testimate if you're coming to that conclution orangegoddess. Let me dust off my bible (which I haven't opened in like.. uh over 6 months and quickly proove you wrong)
Here is a well known verse:

For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in you heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in you heart that you are made right with God and its by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. romans 10:9-10

OH! And this one too!

For the wages of sin is death but the FREE gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our lord. romans 6:23

Uh... tell me where works fits in with the FREE gift of God. And by the way if you haven't noticed, I don't concider myslef a "follower of Christ" I just don't like being ignorant.

Oh wait one more.. If you are A christian. God does own you.

"But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God." romans 6:22a

Basically if you want me to sum it up before I post any more sciptures. When you become a Christian you become a new being you are reborn, no longer a slave to sin, you desire to do good works. Its just a byproduct of having a good relationship with God. - If you don't beleive me read the intire book of Romans and pay attention to chapter 6-12.

quote:

Originally posted by conflictingzest:
orangegoddess,

you've got to give more than just cut and paste. No one here is willing to read those HUGE posts. Give your own interpretation. I don't want to read you're ability to steal someone elses work and ideads instead of thinking for yourself.

ALso,
God calls us to have a relationship with him. you can have a relationship with God without ever going to church. someone can read andinterpret the bible themselves and follow it's teachings without having to go to a building and be taught for hours. In fact i know of ppl who do just that because they're tired of shallow christians in their churches.

I beg to disagree with the thing that you just accept Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour and you’re saved!!! Uh.. saved from what?

Well, lets just get this straight the word “personal” means ownership right? Like a toothbrush or underwear that is of a personal belonging.. is your God your possession or ownership? And this I have to point out and I ponder some time ago.. in this life, things are not easy to get.. like salary, food, clothings- even the most basic thing sin life - you have to work on something to get something in return.
I don’t think salvation is that easy.. as wat you might think. Well yeah first step is to have faith and believe.. but that’s not it. The Bible actually reiterates some actions or works that a man should do to attain salvation from judgement. Actually there are two kinds of salvations..if your pastors do know that. Salvation is not like an instant coffee.. God is not like an instant meal that you just get out of a convenient store. Then you own Him., that’s what I think

Every thing in life is to be worked on. That what made me think of my soul.. if everything is to be worked on, maybe salvation is not that easy too.. it would be illogical if God made things so “complicated” and made salvation so easy to avail.

So what is your idea of church?

quote:

Originally posted by conflictingzest:
orangegoddess,

you've got to give more than just cut and paste. No one here is willing to read those HUGE posts. Give your own interpretation. I don't want to read you're ability to steal someone elses work and ideads instead of thinking for yourself.

Sorry to disappoint you.. but the last post was all from me.. well the first two posts as ive written that there are excerpts from Mr. Soriano's teachings

well this is my question.. where in the Bible can you get the word relationship with Christ.. and not going to church will save you.. i can prove to you that's its all lies.. i can and i will.. coz God didnt just build the Church just to be nothing. if its from God.. it must and should be of worth and value and to our benefit.
Your pastor or minister is leading you the Wrong Way .. ill posts some concrete evidences through Bible verses which are the commandmentsof God .
my post earlier may look cut and paste.. well yeah.. but i just do my thing on Word first so as not to waste my internet account just composing

ALso,
God calls us to have a relationship with him. you can have a relationship with God without ever going to church. someone can read andinterpret the bible themselves and follow it's teachings without having to go to a building and be taught for hours. In fact i know of ppl who do just that because they're tired of shallow christians in their churches.

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:
Of course it wouldn't be in the Bible. Would you put evidence that evolution doesn't exist in a biology textbook? No, it completely defeats the point of what the book is trying to say.

Besides, what kind of God puts people through hell, ignores their pleas for help, and then expects them to stay loyal to him? That's like Hitler expecting the Jews to support him after the Holocaust.

I know I said I wouldn't disuss religion, but I agree with this.

Of course it wouldn't be in the Bible. Would you put evidence that evolution doesn't exist in a biology textbook? No, it completely defeats the point of what the book is trying to say.

Besides, what kind of God puts people through hell, ignores their pleas for help, and then expects them to stay loyal to him? That's like Hitler expecting the Jews to support him after the Holocaust.

I've never read anywhere in the bible where God just up and left someone. He's always there. even in job when he went through the hard times, God was there. Even though God didn't answer Job sitll knew he was there and because Job didn't turn his back on God he was blessed more than he was before. For those who suffer, they don't have to, they can have the joy of the lord in any struggle. Ultimately the bad things happen to show God's glory.
Think of what a story it is to tell someone that you have been through a terrible situation but because you never turned your back on God and instead relied on him, you're faith and you're relationship with God has never been better. Or how bout what a story it is to tell of how God miraculously saved you from some hardship. or even what a lesson it was to be humble and have fear of the lord because of some struggle you went through. there's lost a reasons why bad things happened but it will never be something beyond what you're able to bear if you rely on God.

quote:

The rain falls on the good and the evil the just and the unjust. He can change what happens but if he went in and made everything perfect, if there were no hard times. We'd never appreciate the good things in life. And People who have everything sometimes aren't nearly as happy as people with nothing.

Uh - doesn't solve the fact that God really doesn't really care too much when stuff does happen, he kinda just goes "hey, take this" and then leaves you to deal with the mess you're thrown into.

But I'm going to stop here.. I'm not going to argue religion, it pisses me off, thanks for the feedback though.

quote:

Originally posted by Trisscar:
I have my own fair amount of knowledge of Christianity.

But I'll ask you a question. Why does God let injustice happen? - If he does have control why does he let horrilbe things happen to people? - and you know what, it doesn't matter what you say, I will aways be mad at God for what has happened, what does happen what still happens. What gives him the right to give someone everything and someone else nothing if he indeed has the power to do so?

The rain falls on the good and the evil the just and the unjust. He can change what happens but if he went in and made everything perfect, if there were no hard times. We'd never appreciate the good things in life. And People who have everything sometimes aren't nearly as happy as people with nothing.

I have my own fair amount of knowledge of Christianity.

But I'll ask you a question. Why does God let injustice happen? - If he does have control why does he let horrilbe things happen to people? - and you know what, it doesn't matter what you say, I will aways be mad at God for what has happened, what does happen what still happens. What gives him the right to give someone everything and someone else nothing if he indeed has the power to do so?

Oh and the whole Free will against God's plan thing. (I know the answer wondering if you do)

quote:

Originally posted by orangegoddess021706:
Jesus is the head and the Church is his body. If we just accept Jesus Christ and ignore the Church , you're rejecting half of the truth.
Wat if you found out about the Truth? that we should all be united. Not to be in different groups, opinions, and beliefs. There are so many groups claiming to be of the Truth. If you have unanswered questions by your pastors and ministers and priests, try me.. our Presiding Minister have taught us through wisdom and knowledge.. Do you know where the dead go? Whats the difference between soul and spirit? Do the dead still remember us? Where exactly are they now? .. i know.. do you know? the Bible answers all you questions about God and faith...thanks.

Live by example... you shouldn't argue that there is a God. You are being useless to him and to us by doing so. If you want to reach people frist try through works.