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jst to prove that there is a spirit world and that includes God.

If that's the case, then why doesn't everyone see them?

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senses are given to be used.

Senses can also be deceived. If you can't trust your senses, then what can you trust?

Let me explain the dream argument to you: when you dream, it seems to you that you are awake, yes? While it is possible to realize that you're dreaming while you're asleep, most of the time you aren't aware that you are dreaming. You think you're awake. When you smell something in a dream, you aren't really smelling it. When you see something, you aren't really seeing it. You just think you do. So if this is the case, then how do you really know you're awake? The answer: you don't. You simply believe you are awake. But life could really be an extremely detailed dream. There's no (easy) way to prove that you really are awake.

ghosts are part of this world though they dont belong here but they wanna be here jst to prove that there is a spirit world and that includes God.

senses are given to be used. if you think we're all living in cartoon land.. maybe you're not thinking for yourself coz if this is a dream we should all have powers to stop the evil empire..

If I doubted I had a brain, I could get an MRI to prove that I did indeed have one. I think I have a brain because one must have a brain in order to survive. Without a brain, I would be dead. Therefore, it's logical, in this case, to assume I have a brain. In the case of God, I have no concrete way to support any assumption he exists. Miracles? Could be coincidences. The existence/complexity of the universe? Sheer luck. Nothing in the universe compels me to assume there is a god (or gods). On the contrary, the fact that I am alive compels me to assume I possess a brain, since without one I would die.

This brings up an interesting philosophical idea, though. Can we even trust what we see to be true? Perhaps our sense are deceived. Maybe our lives are nothing but dreams. Perhaps nothing is real.

to see is to believe.. that is always the idea a man wants to be sure of something.
let me ask you this.. we all hve brains right?well as wat medicine and human form tell us. unless you dont believe so coz you havent seen your own brain.
you get my point here?
you dont have to see to believe.
you think, yet does other people see your thots?

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nobody can see God but you can see a ghost.

My girlfriend claims to see ghosts. I'm not really sure what to make of that. But she does tell me that "dark" presences are a rarity. I, on the other hand, have yet to see any ghosts, or even any evidence of their presence. Again, lack of evidence combined with my natural skepticism makes it hard for me to believe in ghosts. But my girlfriend isn't crazy, and she's not the type to lie...

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a ghost is of the dark side that are beings who want special attention that's why they appear.

Although, I don't really believe in ghosts, I've read about lots of cases where ghosts actually protect people, especially children. Like some female ghosts are so sad about losing their own children they "feel" an urge to protect others.

I don't see how that is dark and evil.

nobody can see God but you can see a ghost. a ghost is of the dark side that are beings who want special attention that's why they appear.
if there's evil,there must be the good. if there's dark, there must be light.

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2timothy 3:16 –All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
John 5:39 – Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me.
Proverbs 9:10 - Thr fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the Holy is understanding.

Those are good verses, to be sure, but as amp said, they're untrustworthy. You see, in order to trust that the Bible is true, God must exist (since God is allegedly the one who inspired it to be written). But the Bible is the only proof (so to speak) of God. It's a roundabout argument; completely invalid. If the Bible is true, God exists. If God exists, the Bible is true. I need something other than scripture.

That's fine, but I still say that to know something requires proof of a more definitive nature. I could just as easily say that the vast size of the universe is "proof" that intelligent life must exist somewhere else in it, because otherwise it wouldn't be so big.

I do know what you're saying, Triss, but the problem with that line of thinking is that you can use it to find proof in anything, from a beautiful sunrise to a grilled cheese sandwich that looks vaguely like a face. To know something requires more than what you perceive as evidence supporting your idea, it requires definitive proof that can be substantiated through our common experience and preexisting human knowledge.

I'm not about to have my avatar of a year and a half proven wrong.

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I'm gonna have to be a stickler here. There's a big difference between believing with your whole heart and knowing. Knowing by definition requires tangible proof. People cannot know that God exists any more than I can know there's intelligent life on other planets.

Okay, I know a lot of Christians. And i know that they find proof to say that they can for sure know that what they believe is true, either from some sort of event or experience. For them, whether it's blind faith or not, actually believe that God is real, and they believe they have proof.

Whether that proof is real or not, for they know without a doubt that it's true.

For example A Christain will use nature as an example of God's existence. They use the beauty and symetery(sp) of simple things to say that God exists.

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Originally posted by orangegoddess021706:
If faith means you don’t know.
You don’t know why the sun still shines on murderers.
You don’t know why you love your mom even though she spanks you.
You don’t know why we eat what we eat and why don’t we just eat chicken feeds or grass.
You don’t know why you’re still living.
You don’t know why you wake up in the middle of the night just to take a piss.
You don’t know why some just did not wake up anymore.
You don’t know why when a baby comes out.. we see the gender as male or female. But in the long run you’ll find out he’s gay.
You don’t know why you feel love or anger
You don’t know why no matter what.. somehow you still care.
You don’t know why even if you already said no, still you say yes in the end.

I think you have faith confused with sentience. There's a logical and perfectly reasonable explanation for every one of these examples, except for the ones that are just clichés to begin with.

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Originally posted by Trisscar:
You still can't ignore that maybe the term "faith" means something different to different people. Maybe Faith for a Christian means that they know that know that they know that know that what they believe is true.

I'm gonna have to be a stickler here. There's a big difference between believing with your whole heart and knowing. Knowing by definition requires tangible proof. People cannot know that God exists any more than I can know there's intelligent life on other planets.

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All Scripture is given by inspiration of God

true but it's written down by man and is therefore suspect

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If faith means you don’t know.
You don’t know why the sun still shines on murderers.
You don’t know why you love your mom even though she spanks you.
You don’t know why we eat what we eat and why don’t we just eat chicken feeds or grass.
You don’t know why you’re still living.
You don’t know why you wake up in the middle of the night just to take a piss.
You don’t know why some just did not wake up anymore.
You don’t know why when a baby comes out.. we see the gender as male or female. But in the long run you’ll find out he’s gay.
You don’t know why you feel love or anger
You don’t know why no matter what.. somehow you still care.
You don’t know why even if you already said no, still you say yes in the end.

Those are some craptastical examples, Orangegoddess. Because, surprisingly enough, I and most other people do know the answers to those. If you really don't know why you get up to pee in the middle of the night, there's seriously something wrong with you...

Also, we can eat chicken feed and grass, we just chose not to, simply because it tastes bad to us. Humans decide on what to eat based on whatever is available and/or what tastes good.

I'd answer the rest of those individually, but I'm tired.

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Well, according to dictionary.com, which I agree with over 99% of the time, faith is simply "belief that is not based on proof."

You still can't ignore that maybe the term "faith" means something different to different people. Maybe Faith for a Christian means that they know that know that they know that know that what they believe is true.

I'm not nessesarily disagreeing with you though.

If faith means you don’t know.
You don’t know why the sun still shines on murderers.
You don’t know why you love your mom even though she spanks you.
You don’t know why we eat what we eat and why don’t we just eat chicken feeds or grass.
You don’t know why you’re still living.
You don’t know why you wake up in the middle of the night just to take a piss.
You don’t know why some just did not wake up anymore.
You don’t know why when a baby comes out.. we see the gender as male or female. But in the long run you’ll find out he’s gay.
You don’t know why you feel love or anger
You don’t know why no matter what.. somehow you still care.
You don’t know why even if you already said no, still you say yes in the end.

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Originally posted by clpo13:

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- There is a way which seemeth right unto a man; but the end thereof are the ways of death.

But what else am I to go on if God won't give me any pointers? I can't trust any worldly sources because they all contradict. I can only rely on God, but God won't talk to me. It's a bit of a quandary.

2timothy 3:16 –All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
John 5:39 – Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me.
Proverbs 9:10 - Thr fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the Holy is understanding.

quote:

- There is a way which seemeth right unto a man; but the end thereof are the ways of death.

But what else am I to go on if God won't give me any pointers? I can't trust any worldly sources because they all contradict. I can only rely on God, but God won't talk to me. It's a bit of a quandary.

Well, according to dictionary.com, which I agree with over 99% of the time, faith is simply "belief that is not based on proof."

But as you may have guessed from my avatar, I'm a teensie bit biased on this one.

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Originally posted by speed:
Faith means you don't know

Acording to the bible. Which I don't nessesarily agree with.

Faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of things you can't see. Hebrew 11:1

Just thought I should put that out there.