I would like to start off by thanking Jamaica because she inspired me to write this board, by these two posts of hers:

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Then you dont have faith anymore Celtic.... Yes, most Christians are like that... but i try to resolve it by doing what is good and right and avoiding evil....However, just like Bella, you are a coward because even though religions have their own problems, you easily back down and drive you out of religion. Religion teaches us to be patient, that if you teach and share to others what is good and right, they will come to realize the lives they have been living and thats when people who are enlightened will "return" to their faith.

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oh really? think again... i never ruined my faith... in fact, my faith is always here beating lively inside my heart. I dont need to "return to" my faith because its been always there. No, some of us are not born Christian. You can only go to God if you have faith, and by doing good and avoiding evil.. as what we had in health ethics.

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Back to my potin. When I read these two, I asked myself how can she possibly expect me to become Chrsitian again. Why? Well, for most of us pagans and atheists, we have been faced with intolerance and even forms of persecusion as we admit our faiths (or lack of faiths) to Christians. We are told how immoral we are, how we shall rot in Hell for it, etc. And we are suddenly on trial by these people, they become some sort of jury we never wanted and judge what we did, what do, and what will do. They don't look at us as friends or even equals, just mere "sinners" and inferiors because of our "evil".

Overall, we as non-Chrsitians are generally not treated well by Crhsitians. And somehow, in their Bible mind, they expect us to magically become Chrsitian, or be a born again Christian (this being, of course, if we were Christian before). They expect it to be our duty to be of the Chrisitan faith, to memorize the Bible and sit through an hour of church every Sunday, forgetting how they have trated and judged us.

So, my point is, how cna they expect us to become or reutn to the faith if they treated us like low lives? Isn't being so judgemental and intoleran and hypocritical to their own beliefs just make them look bad? If they so deperately want us to be Christian, why can't they follow what their own Bible says? Why are they such a-holes? I mean, if you want to sell something on ebay, for example, don't desrcibe it as an ugly thing, or else it won't sell, right?

Thoughts? Comments? Insults?

Ah

6 am in the morning boredom. 'Nuff said.

Why'd you create a whole new thread, Celtic?

Korith, I've missed you. Where have you been, dear?

Puffin:
They aren't real Christians. Simply believing those things does not make someone Christian. To be a Christian you need to do more then simply believe, anyone can do that. If all it took to be a Christian was to believe Christ the savior, then anyone could go to heave ill-reguardless of the way they lives their lives.

"What good it is, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith sae him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If anyone of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."
-James 2:14-17

It takes more then just believing to be a Christian. God doesn't ask us [Christians] to simply believe, we are called to live a live glorifing to him. I could say, "I'm a Christian, Jesus is my Lord and Savior!" But then i go and murder someone for whatever spare change they had, is this Christian? Of course not!

People we say they are Christians, and may honestly believe they are, but do not live as Christians are not Christians at all.

"You blieve that there is one God. Good! Even the Demons believe that -and shudder."
-James 2:19

Great points, Celtic. I think it all boils down to these Christian extremists being far less interested in converting us than they claim to me. I suspect that in many of their warped minds, they can only be "right" if enough other people are "wrong", and they derive a cowardly sort of comfort from their self-profressed moral superiority.

But I can't speak for all of the Christian Fundies, and I do believe a good many of them really are genuinely trying to convert you. In doing so, they use the same Bush tactics that are keeping them locked in their "faith" to begin with: threats. Threats of fire and brimstone and of not being of good moral character by default. These are the fundies that I pity as well as loathe, as somebody in their lives has taught them that they are doing us all "a favor" by insulting and threatening us. The scary thing, though, is that I suspect these scare tactics often work.

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Originally posted by madpuffinkeeper:
And for you Christians, don't give me the whole "People like that aren't real Christians" routine. They are real Christians, because they have faith in the God of Abraham and believe in Jesus as their savior. That is the definition of a Christian, not whether or not they make your faith look good. I'm tired of all the excuses.

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Yes, they're real Christians by the textbook definition, but it's not fair to place the blame for their behavior on Christianity itself or the Christian community at large. I do agree that Christians who disagree with these insulting "conversion tactics" should make more an effort to get their side of things heard. If the sane Christians are guilty, they're only guilty of not ranking this problem as a top priority. It's time for the sane Christians to stop the Christian extremists from destroying Christianity.

Unless, of course, the extremists actually manage to strengthen Christianity and bolster their denomination, turning Christianity into Nazism and America into a land of fascism.

I don't understand it either, Celtic. I know not all Christians are moronic and judgemental, but it seems the ones I encounter are. The problem is the extremists are the only voices being heard. The truly loving and accepting Christians are not overzealous about their take on the faith, and therefore are not to be heard over the screaming and ranting of the nutjobs.

That reminds me: Some random idiot wrote in to our college newspaper today and ended the letter with "So, for all of you, happy Hanukkah and Happy Kwanzaa. For anyone else's holiday celebration I left out-- get over it and act like the rest of us. Merry Christmas and welcome to America."

Ugh. That just seems so very typical.

I'm sick of it. Especially this ******* who wrote to the paper proclaiming the superiority of Christian holidays just because they are federally recognized. Even if I changed my mind about believing in God someday, I think Christianity would be about the last religion I would consider.

And for you Christians, don't give me the whole "People like that aren't real Christians" routine. They are real Christians, because they have faith in the God of Abraham and believe in Jesus as their savior. That is the definition of a Christian, not whether or not they make your faith look good. I'm tired of all the excuses.