There will be a congregational meeting during church tomorrow to bring a vote of no-confidence from the consistory to the congregation.

Now, here it is in plain language for you non-church going people: The leaders of our church (i.e. the consistory, a committee that heads all other committees and of which you must first be nominated to join) voted whether or not to fire the minister of my church - my dad was the only one who voted to keep him. This is called a vote of no-confidence, as in it is saying the consistory does not have confidence in him as a minister. Tomorrow, the church will fall to the entire congregation on whether tomorrow will be his last Sunday with us or if he will stay until his planned retirement in December.

Why, you may ask, does the consistory have no confidence in him? They are idiots. They just don't like him. End of story. And now members have left due to their dislike of him and members of stopped giving money to the church (as if that will hurt him) so that adds to the cons against this minister. He is a good man. He does his job well. He is still suffering from a mild stroke he had a few years back which is why he is retiring. However, this consistory is trying to force him out of the church early...sounds stupid, doesn't it? Which is why I said they are idiots. Here is the speech that I will be giving during the meeting tomorrow. I thought all of you may find it interesting:

I may very well be the youngest person in the 200 years of Beulah church history to stand up and have a say about the political and monetary problems within this church. But my father is on the consistory and my mother is the church secretary so my knowledge of these situations is probably greater than you would assume. I would first like to clarify that I was not asked by anyone to speak and that I personally wrote everything I'm about to say to you. My mother has read most of this speech while Dad is getting a first row seat like everyone else in this congregation. Even though I will admit that my parents agree with my views, my speech would not change a bit if they did not. This is my personal, honest, and well-informed opinion.

As a younger person, I think I may have a better view of the adults in this church. I can observe situations on my own without influence from the adults and it is very easy for me to see how many of you are acting just like the students that I go to school with. You are acting like teenagers, like children, forming cliques and acting out against leadership simply because you don't like it. You are saying things and doing things that are wrong - such as interrupting this service - just because something does not fit into your own little world and how you think things should run.

I know that the problem of money is now one of the reasons that [Bob] is being asked to leave. But before that, the problem was that people just didn't like his style. They didn't like the way he did things and how he wanted the service and other duties of his to go. Get over it. [Bob] has been a minister for a very long time now and he has his own way of doing things and that is the way it is with every preacher. Any preacher we ever get will not be what everyone wants. No preacher could please everyone all the time, especially not in this diverse church. It's just too bad if you don't like his sermons or the way he conducts service. That is his prerogative as the leader of this church. You may not like the way our next preacher does it either. Are you going to kick him out too just because of dislike? That is counterproductive and it doesn't make any sense. [Bob] is simply a well-meaning, kind individual trying to do his job and help our church. He is not here to entertain you but to bring you the message of God and lead you on the right path. It is not his job to try to please everyone or to tell us what we want to hear. It is his job to tell us what he feels we need to hear through the word of God. He has been trying to do just that in his time here and you keep trying to stop him. Why would any church want to stop someone from spreading the message of the Lord?

As for the monetary problems, that is also counterproductive. [Bob's] salary does not change if you do not give money to the church. It does not hurt him. This complaint about Chris that is about a lack of money being given to the church in the last few weeks - in other words members of this church created a problem simply to exile this man. You only hurt the church and your church family by refusing to give what is needed. Your opinion should be expressed in some other way that what you do or do not give to the church. To do that is to be petty and hurtful and it is unsurprisingly similar to acts that high-school kids would commit to exclude a member of their group, their little clique. Adults who are 20 to 40 to 60 years older than I am should not continue to take the actions of a group of teenagers. You are supposed to wiser than I am and instead you are setting a bad example for the younger generations in this church. You are telling us that it is okay to kick someone out because of money or because we simply don't like the looks of him. I cannot imagine you wanting the future of this church to carry on this. But it will only do so if you give us no other example to follow.

Last Sunday, [Bob] mentioned that the youth has declined and that very little has been done to rectify that. Look at me. I am your high-school youth. I'm it. I show up at Sunday school - [Jill's] Sunday school class now - and I try to fit the new youth meeting schedule into my own. Any other high-school aged person you see in this congregation does not. I can't tell you how many Sundays I sat alone in Sunday school discussing spiritual topics with [Bob]. This is where I truly got to know him and his continual relationship with God. This is how I truly found out the great man that he is. You are worried about the youth decline and blaming it on [Bob] but, if nothing else, you should be thanking him for keeping your only high-school youth around and teaching her. I am your youth. And I am not happy with the way the one person who has stuck by me is being treated.

In the past, Mom and Dad have talked about switching churches so that I could experience a much larger and more involved youth fellowship. But I wanted to stay, not only because of what [Bob] had taught me in our one-on-one Sunday School classes, but also because of every single person that I stand to greet on Sunday mornings. You know who you are. I love speaking to and exchanging hugs with several of you every week - I love my church family, youth or not. But now I have a different view on people I once respected. How can I respect people who will so savagely exile a man of God? I'll still hug you - my love for you will not cease. But I see you through different eyes. I see you for the cold-hearted, selfish people that you can be in the face of simple change. You don't have to be that person - oftentimes you are not - but this is the most crucial time you could choose to show your kind-hearted spirit. So far you haven't shown the love for [Bob] that you so willingly show me but hopefully my words will inspire you to vote with a compassionate heart.

If my parents were to ask me again that same question, I cannot guarantee that I would have the same answer. But I wish I could. I really wish I could say that I wanted to stay with this loving congregation. But how can I say that if this congregation does not love the man who leads them?

I want [Bob] to stay as our minister at least until his retirement so that he can see it through to the end and leave with the trust and faith of our congregation and dignity in himself. He deserves that much. He deserves more than that but at least that much. He deserves more than people who refuse to accept him as he is. You know, people didn't accept Christ for who he was either.

Thank you for your time and attention. I'll leave you with these words and I hope you will think of them as you vote:

And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ has also forgiven you. Ephesians 4:32

Actually, I liked a lot of the old people in my church before all of this.

And I still like a lot of them because a lot of them agreed with me.

It's just going to be weird to see what church is like this Sunday.

Alas, I'm forced to endure this kind of stupidity nearly every Sunday. I hate old people.

Hopefully. Here's some more to the story now:

1. On Mondays, the preacher usually holds a Bible Study. They wouldn't even let him do that on the Monday after we fired him.

2. We fired him the Sunday before the Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of Vacation Bible School. They wouldn't let him do that either, I don't think.

3. One of the more prominent members that was a total d*ck to my mother, voted on Sunday, the 24th, and then she received a letter (she's the secretary) noting his membership transfer to another church dated Monday, the 25th. So he used his right to vote in order to get rid of the preacher and then transferred to another church. How the hell does that make sense?

It just sucks. I kinda hate my church right now even though I still love a lot of the people that go there, even some that voted against the preacher. A lot of people came to me after church to tell me they liked my speech and that it was brave and took guts and that they were proud of me, yadda, yadda, yadda. But all I kept thinking was, "All my courage didn't do any frickin' good." Yeah, so it sucks.

Maybe karma will work....

Everything happens for a reason. Major cliché but true.

I know you know that I'm Protestant but I thought maybe "the Church" in the title of this thread may have thrown a few people.

I thought I was influential in my church. I'm pretty much the sole high-school youth and I speak to several people, young and old, every Sunday morning.

However, I am sad to say that today was the last day for my preacher. He will be forced into retirement early.

Take in mind my cultural aspect, here in Puerto Rico, we have either: extreme santeros (witches), extreme Christians, or extreme atheists.

quote:

And, Celtic, exorcism is indeed a Catholic thing, not Protestant. Did you perhaps get roped into going to a Baptist church?

I don't know. The head-planner of the exorcism thing was near psychopathic and very ignorant at the same time, she knew nothing of her faith at all.

And I know you're Protestant. I wasn't shooting at Protestants because I know they're more understanding than Catholics (for example), but I mean that specific church family was insane. If I write all the things they did it'd be a four-page essay. Your church sounds more open minded with the whole allowing its members to speak, that one I went to didn't allow that.

Are you very influencial at your church?

Oh, by the way, I'm not Catholic. I'm Protestant.

And, Celtic, exorcism is indeed a Catholic thing, not Protestant. Did you perhaps get roped into going to a Baptist church?

I'll post again after the service today and let you guys know how my speech and the vote went.

A few other things about this situation:

* Usually, we have a congregational meeting after the church service is ended. This allows non-members (who are not allowed to vote) to leave and so that business does not interrupt the worship service. However, those idiots in the consistory (excluding one of the little old ladies and my dad) want to have it right before what could be my minister's last sermon. They have some bull**** reasons that I won't even get into - you can just assume that they are stupid and don't make any sense.

*Usually, the floor is open to discussion - even non-members can discuss an issue. However, the consistory has asked (in order to keep order at this meeting, as the last one got a little out of hand) that anyone who wishes to speak sign their names up on a list. So far, I have only seen five names on the list. The first guy has decided not to speak, I am next, my mom is after me, and then two men from the other side are next to last and last. They are even big enough d*cks to purposely put their names at the end in order to have "the last word." Mom thinks no one - not even herself - is going to want to follow me.

*The only way I will not get to speak is if someone calls a motion to skip all discussion and go straight to the vote and if someone seconds it. If they're going to do this, I really hope I get to speak first. It would totally suck if I wrote this whole speech and then didn't get to say it.

quote:

How is Yoga or Tai-chi critical to New Agey stuffs? I don't really know anything about New Age beliefs.

New Age is very disorganized and doesn't have one true doctrine or anything, but most that have New Age beliefs either are vegetarian, do yoga or tai-chi, and such. So when you don't, even if it's not officially required, they treat you like an unenlightened idiot.

Hmmm...That sucks. Sorry, there's not much more I can say...
We kinda-sorta did something like that...We had a priest for forty, maybe fifty years, a wonderful guy, the kind of guy you can't help but like. As he lay dying, he was blessing the nurses who came to help him to his last breath. He was a saint.
After he died, we got a new priest, hwo wanted to 'modernize' the parish--the first thing he did was badmouth the old priest and get rid of anything that had to do with him. For example, The youth center/trailer dedicated to our former priest was turned into a storage shed. As for the badmouthing, the new priest said that the former was disliked because he was 'obstinate', and 'disobeyed the Archbishop', and such, while everyone knew that it was because he loved being a priest so much, he refused to stay in the hospital due to his injuries and illnesses.
Things like that.
As the new priest saw his popularity approach rock bottom, he even compared himself to Jesus, among his many sermons that he used as 'tounge-in-cheek' ways of reprimanding the parish. That pissed people off even more. Something wrong about a priest equalling himself with the Lord, ja?
The final straw came not from collection revenues, nor petitions to the archdiocese (sp), but from church authority. Our new priest overstepped his authority a bit too much by denying a man communion for leaving early every Sunday during church, saying that Mass is a prayer: you can't just skip the last parts so you can go home early. The man's side of the story is that his son has panic attacks around large groups of people. Sitting down, the kid was okay, but when everyone gets up and starts moving around after church, the kid has a panic attack.
Anyway. We also found out that ours was not the first to do this. Apparently, he sometimes couldn't last more than a few weeks.

So, is there anything specific that they don't like about "Bob", or what?

At least you have the option of going to another church...mine is the only Catholic church in the whole friggin' county.

CelticNewAger:
Wow. That sucks ***. I can't stand when that happens. Some people just don't want to have faith and think at the same time. Just look in the book, the answers are right there! There IS a God, there IS a plan, and the spaceship is coming! (To quote Maria Bamford)

How is Yoga or Tai-chi critical to New Agey stuffs? I don't really know anything about New Age beliefs.

I think the important thing is to have faith, even if you are alone in it. Every so often, I come up with questions that would turn a nun white as paper, but I think about it until I have an idea of how it might work.
Like Noah's Ark. How do we still have polar bears? A Polar Bear Noah. No--Noah the Seal! Much cuter!
That question requires a lot of logical hoop-jumping...but I came up with the answer of 'multiple Noahs'. After all, there are many traditions with the story of some great flood or another, and all of them have some way out of it, obviously.
Okay. I'm rambling now. Three in the morning is too late for me. G'night.

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It's not the Christian God I dislike, its the Church and most of its followers. For that same reason, most of them are elitists, even between themselves. I find it extremely hypocritical.

(Warning: One of Celtic's secrets ahead) I was a Christian for a long time, I was in my church's choir and everything. But the members of the church told me TO MY FACE they didn't want me there anymore because I "questioned too much" and because my opinion wasn't exactly like theirs. That's one of my angers with the Church, that **** behaviour.

I switched then from going to a Catholic church to a Protestant one, thinking they'd be more understanding. It actually got worse. They made a whole plan to get me to go to this spiritual retreat so they could do an exorcism on me (which I don't get because I thought exorcisms were Catholic), but that's a long story. That being unsuccesful and my still being me, they decided to claim I was sleeping with not only my boyfriend (an avid member of the church) but most of the church's youth group, which was bull, I was a virgin then.

But it's not only in Christianity. I got into New Agey beliefs afterwards and most of them were even MORE obvious of their ego. It pissed them off that I didn't want to change my diet and not do yoga or tai-chi.

Another reason why I hate religion. Because it has been transformed into a society with a caste system within it.

Clearly I'm the Bermuda Triangle of religion. Damn libertinage...

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