What gives you the right to call Catholism a cult? i highly doubt that it is a cult. What if I called your religion a cult?

I have nothing aginst the cathoilic people, but their church services are sooooo boring. I am soo used to being able to stand up and dance in the seats at my church. At catholic churches u just sit there and listen to these sermons that are soo boring! i almost fell asleep! That was the last time i was ever allowed in that church because i screamed "Amen" in the middle of one of the sermons, how was I susposed to know thats not allowed??

People are ignorant.

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The Catholics do not read the Holy Bible; they have pieces of the
Bible, but they add their own books, have taken away full verses, and
adhere to the Canon(s).

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Since i have never heard of this, can you please give me an example? Which books did they add? What verses did they take away?


I see the big difference between the beliefs of catholics and other christian denominations. And i see how they will definatly disagree with each other.

But what do they have AGAINST catholics as people?

Why do they hate us?

Why are we so stereotyped? What stereotypes have you heard?

I always hear that we are "too religious" which is totally untrue. We are just as religious as any other christian religion.

What other stereotypes have you heard or believed? How do you explain all the sneers and frowns that catholics get when you tell them your religion as if that automatically makes them a person you wish to not associate with?

Okay?

its a cult

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We too can come out and ask God for our spiritual and physical needs. We don't have to pray

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I'm referring to the part where Catholics commence in prayer when asking the lord for <insert want/need here>. You never have to pray, but it's part of the religion to do so.

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The Catholic religion is not based on this. True we do have Doctrines or official Church Statements, but we do also follow the Bible

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The Catholic Church IS based upon tradition, from which your doctrines and bible sprang.

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i still don't see the point

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So because you're unable to see the point in something, it is automatically deemed wrong in your eyes?

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but why pray to her? she did nothing for us.

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Uhm, yeah, she did. She conceived your "messiah." You've already said that, if I'm not mistaken. Without Mary, there may have been no Jesus. Christians believe that she was a virgin, which I think is BS anyway.

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you are stereotyping protestants

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It's not stereotyping; it's a fact. For instance, it's like if you had brown hair and I called you a brunette, you'd think I was stereotyping because your brothers and sisters don't have brown hair. Look up words before you go preaching that I'm being a bigot.

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she does not answer or hear our prayers... only jesus does.

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But you really don't know that, do you? Your faith binds you to that belief because no one has indoctrinated Catholicism into your life. Hmm.

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some priests molest children

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Were you aware that more Protestant ministers and clergy molest/physically abuse children three times as many times as Catholics? Obviously not. The only reason you don't hear about it is because it's not concentrated into one Church.

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This is complete blasphemy, according to the Holy Bible.

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Joey, you would not even HAVE a bible to immerse yourself in, as you do so regularly, without Catholicism.

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2) By acknowledging a saint, you're basically saying that the saint is um, perfect -- is this not correct? Are saints not perfect?

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And how did you reach this conclusion?

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If they're not perfect, why are they called saints?

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Saints are not perfect. Where did you read that crap?

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Name me a catholic official who remains celibate? Monks.

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Actually, most of the clergy is celibate, Joey.

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They didn't stop. They liked the Christian message, some of them, but they brought back in those pagan beliefs and doctrines -- the ones you now see.

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As I will repeat, the Catholic Church was the beginning of Christianity. Without it, you'd probably be an Atheist, Joey. Or a Muslim, or a Jew. Who knows

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There's my discussion of the matter; of course, as with everything, you must research it and open-mindedly study things for yourselves; I'm glad I'm a newspaper reporter; the researching and study has become a hobby of sorts because I'm so used to it

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Actually, it's funny you say that, Joey. You claim to do research, but it's all from pro-Jesus-right-leaning websites that you found by searching a directory. Have you ever BEEN to the library? It makes me wonder how you got a job as a reporter, but fail to maintain neutral and ignorance. Hmm.

Ah, here we go.

This is a nice discussion, and I'm going to try to not be as harsh; and if it sounds like I'm harsh, then that's only because I care about you learning the Truth.

1) The Catholics do not read the Holy Bible; they have pieces of the Bible, but they add their own books, have taken away full verses, and adhere to the Canon(s).

This is complete blasphemy, according to the Holy Bible.

2) By acknowledging a saint, you're basically saying that the saint is um, perfect -- is this not correct? Are saints not perfect?

So if you pray to a saint, you are in fact, praying to someone you regard as perfect, therefore totally circumventing the True perfect saint, Jesus Christ; there are three kinds of "beings" from what I've studied so far: non-perfect humans, angels, and Jesus Christ the Almighty God.

Regarding, or "honoring" a saint or Virgin Mary is in fact, worshipping a false god; because, hello, saints are "perfect." If they're not perfect, why are they called saints?

3) Virgin Mary was chosen to do a wonderful thing; just like all Christians, we are called to do specific purposes. Mary was no exception.

Praying to Mary is like praying to a god - you are in fact praying to her, or communicating with her - are you not? However, what Catholics refuse to acknowledge, from the countless times I've discussed this, is that there is not a mediator between Man and God, except through Jesus Christ - which, Trinity-speaking, is the same thing as God.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" - 1 Tim. 2:5

Mary has no purpose other than the historical figure who conceived Jesus.


"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly,that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils;" - 1 Timothy 4:1

For example:

"Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." - 1 Tim. 4:3


Name me a catholic official who remains celibate? Monks.

Vegetarians, beware, also.


4) The thing about Catholics being an offshoot of Christianity is true.

However, when Christianity was spread to Rome, the Romans at the time worshipped many gods and goddesses, conducted pagan rituals and basically did all the things the Christians were trying to stop;

But something happened.

They didn't stop. They liked the Christian message, some of them, but they brought back in those pagan beliefs and doctrines -- the ones you now see.

For example, on the (I think) most helpful, resourceful Religious website on the net (BeliefNet.com) there is a list of different saints to pray to; have a sore throat? There's a specific saint to pray to for that.

Need relationship advice? There's one for that, too.

Think Greek Mythology, except this time it's Roman.

Then, you have the former Jesuit priest Emmanuel Milingo, who conducted speeches and wrote books exposing Satanism in the higher levels of the Vatican.

This, of course, is passed off as just fluff, but it all makes sense; if the Revised Roman Empire is to give rise to the Antichrist, as many have alluded to in Revelation and Daniel, then it would only make sense that the Vatican, situated in the old Roman Empire, would give rise to the False Prophet (remember: in the Tribulation, a Antichrist, false political leader, and False Prophet, false religious leader, get their power from Satan to FOOL the entire world).


There's my discussion of the matter; of course, as with everything, you must research it and open-mindedly study things for yourselves; I'm glad I'm a newspaper reporter; the researching and study has become a hobby of sorts because I'm so used to it.

Yea, I know how you feel PiZazZChica17.

That's why I don't ask any more questions about religion anymore. Everyone has different answers and I get confuse and I don't know what or who to believe.

So I just try to find the best and most information on religions. But, it's just book information, I sometimes want information from a person who is really in that religion but I'm scared to ask.



Bye N Have a nice day

thank you gemini for all the information. Only now after reading what jazzman had to say, i don't know who to believe.

I used to be catholic( i'm not anymore.....but my parents don't know so i still get all the criticism) and though i have no problem with other christian denominations and their beliefs and them not understanding catholic beliefs, I DO have a problem with people of other christian denominations who think catholics are NOT christians and think they are a very stupid religion with perverted priests.

People are very stereotypical about the religion. They think catholics are REALLY REALLY religious, go to church for five hours, are pagan ( ex: joey dauben), and i'm sure their are more that i don't know aobut

So if you know of any stereo-types or dislike catholicism and catholics for some reason, please state them on this board.

And by the way, what religion are you, savedbygrace since you say that protestants and catholics are not christians?

thank you for attempting to give me insight into my questions. as for the praying to anyone other than god/jesus himself, well... i still don't see the point. yes, they have done great things, but the credit is not theirs is it? no. even they admitted, "i can do all things through christ who strengthens me..." they did not say that they could do it on their own, because it is only by the power of jesus' holy spirit that they were able to do anything. as far as mary goes, yes all christians believe that she conceived jesus, the one who died on the cross for us, as a virgin. but it was god's command that this happen to her. she was a faithful servant of the lord, and for this, god rewarded her with the parenthood of the one, true messiah. but why pray to her? she did nothing for us. had she not been the mother of jesus, god would have found someone else. she was perfect for the part though, and that's all there is to that story. she does not answer or hear our prayers... only jesus does.
god bless

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think all Catholics are stupid

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i don't think it's stupid. it's almost the same. we use t bible( do u call it bible or something else?), there's jesus, mary in it.we all pray for family, friends, peace. what's the difference?

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Christianity DERIVED from Catholicism

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u got that right. i forgot when it happened.

This reply is not to criticize anyone's religion, because everyone has a right to their own religion, just to answer some of the questions about Catholics. Please note this is my understanding about this religion and I cannot speak for others who share my faith.

Jazzman

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why pray to the saints and/or mary... or through them? don't you realize that the bible says "there is only one way to the father and that is through the son." ?

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I pray to the Saints and to Mary because I believe they have done more good than most people on earth today. This is not saying that everyone living today is evil and no matter how hard they try they will never do anything good. Take Mary for example. Catholics believe that she gave birth to Jesus. There are two special things about this birth. The first is that Jesus died on the cross and rose on the third day, to save us from our sins. The second is she gave birth without commiting a sin to conceive a child. This is the only occourance in which this has happened.
To answer your second question

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and what about confessing your sins to priests... did you sin against the priest or against god?

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I believe that when sinning we have sinned against God. I think we only confess our sins to a priest to have them forgiven. (I know. Duh!) But the reason I go to confession is because after I have sinned I usually feel guilty and feel like I need to talk to someone. I know talking to your parents is a good way to get things off your chest but usually there is a fear of getting in trouble.

Your last question

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and what is the point of the pope?

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The point of the Pope is to lead the Catholic Church. He gives his views of what is going on in the world. Not all Catholics agree with the Pope so I cannot say he tells Catholics how to believe one way or another. For example the Pope does not support a war with Iraq, but I know a few Catholics who do.

Gemini

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Catholics, however, believe they need to perform acts of devotion and penitence to somehow earn the attention of Mary and gain God's favor.

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I have been Catholic all my life and said nightly prayers before I go to bed ever since I knew the words to them. Not all Catholics do this. We too can come out and ask God for our spiritual and physical needs. We don't have to pray.

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the other is
based on religion as interpreted by traditions of Catholic clergy

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The Catholic religion is not based on this. True we do have Doctrines or official Church Statements, but we do also follow the Bible.

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The main difference is that Protestants believe that salvation can be achieved through being a good person in general and loving god. In Catholicism, an individual must participate in the holy sacraments and actually "work" to achieve salvation.

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you have it so wrong it's not even funny. you are stereotyping protestants... some protestants believe that, yes, however, some priests molest children... you see, there are no barriers on protestant or catholic beliefs because people don't know what their own denominations believe... they claim themselves to be a certain denomination and then exploit it. protestants, particularly pentecostals, believe that you have to work very hard to acheive heaven... jesus died for our sins and we are commanded to take up our cross and follow him... so don't run your mouth unless you know what you're talking about. a person can only consider themself a christian if they believe christ is the messiah and the son of god and follow his teachings... if those things are not met, a person can't be christian...

now... pizza... to answer your questions... protestants like myself, only have a few gripes with catholocism... mind you, i said catholocism, not catholics. first off.. why pray to the saints and/or mary... or through them? don't you realize that the bible says "there is only one way to the father and that is through the son." ? and what about confessing your sins to priests... did you sin against the priest or against god? who then should you be asking forgiveness from? and what is the point of the pope? honestly.. i'm as curious as you are, and i don't mean my comments to be hostile... if you do have an answer for me, i'd love to discuss it and hear what you have to say. god bless and good luck

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Christianity is supposed a relationship

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And all Christians are supposed to follow the bible; and Christians aren't supposed to cheat, lie, steal, etc. and ask forgiveness just to repeat their crimes. The key word is supposed to. Even non-denomination Christians have their own version of the bible, savedbygrace. So you're just another one of those people you're criticizing. Smart, eh?

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But this is what i have against catholics: They are the ones that originally made christianity something it wasn't supposed to be, and have put a big block in front of millions of people such as gemini so they can't see God for what He really is.

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Catholics didn't MAKE Christianity, Jesus Christ did. Catholicism was simply a method of showing devotion to and following the lifestyle of Christ. In your terms, the Catholic Church initiated the "relationship" that ANY Christian has with their god. Each division of Christianity has their own bible, so you're stating that you're the only true Christian because you know how to maintain this "relationship" with god.

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I thought the Protestant religion is any christian who is not a catholic

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That's the gist of it.

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If protestants and Catholics are really not christians, then WHO ARE?

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They both are, it just depends on each Christian's perspective.

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what is the difference between CATHOLICISM and episcapalian OR presbyterian OR any other christian religion?

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Both Protestants and Catholics believe that Jesus' life is reality, but they focus on different aspects of his life. The death on the cross and the resurrection of Jesus is the very basis of Protestantism. On the other hand, Catholicism emphasizes baby Jesus and the birth mother of Jesus. Mary is seen as a mediator between God and man. Protestants glorify Jesus for his flawless life and willingness to always obey God's will.

Another controversial point is what determines the acceptance to heaven or righteousness. The Catholics believe good works or sacraments may allow them to spend less time in purgatory paying for their sins before entering heaven. Protestants, on the other hand, a re assured that Jesus paid the penalty for all sin. Accepting this gift through faith, not works, guarantees entrance into heaven. Faith with good works is one aspect of Protestantism that is confused with the Catholic life of good works. It is necessary for a Protestant to accept Jesus as their Lord, acknowledge his death and resurrection, and admit sins. Catholics are baptized as babies into Christianity, and as a cultural tradition, has a "first communion" ceremony when they are about 10 years old. Sins are confessed to a priest.

For Catholics, religion is works, church sacraments, and traditional rapacious prayer. Prayer in the dynamic daily life of a Protestant includes conversation, praise, and repentance. It is valid for Protestants to simply ask God for spiritual and physical needs. Catholics, however, believe they need to perform acts of devotion and penitence to somehow earn the attention of Mary and gain God's favor.

Although there is much similarity between these two religions, the basic beliefs are contradictory. One is based on relationship founded on the truth of the Bible; the other is
based on religion as interpreted by traditions of Catholic clergy. They are actually worlds apart in doctrine and faith.

oh boy. now i' m REALLY confused. I thought the Protestant religion is any christian who is not a catholic ( ex: episcapalian, presbyterian....)

Am i wrong? If protestants and Catholics are really not christians, then WHO ARE?

And savedbygrace, how did the Catholics change christianity. And again( other than what gemini said) , what is the difference between CATHOLICISM and episcapalian OR presbyterian OR any other christian religion?

Umm... no.

Let's get this straight. Protestants came from Catholics... and Catholics came from Christians. Neither catholic or protestant is correct because... parts of their manmade doctirine go completely against biblical principles.

Christianity is supposed a relationship.... this is why church in the modern age is so extremely sick and corrupt, because they don't even follow God, they follow their doctrine. The modern church, in all denominations, pick and choose from the bible and make up their own man made CRAP, and interpret the bible to fit their lives.

So guess what.... in all reality... Catholics aren't christians... and Protestants aren't either. People are so caught up in their RELIGION and not their RELATIONSHIP.

And another thing.... the church is not even freakin used in the correct terms anymore. The church is seen as a building of people that follow a certain religion and then go on living their everyday lives like anybody else would ... the church is supposed to be (by what the bible says) a fellowship of believers. Which as i've said in other posts is "pistuo" beliefs, which a a belief that dramatically changes the way you live.

So if Christianity and the church were to be what it is actually intended to be. Then I wouldn't have to waste my time away explaining to people on this stupid orange website the way christianity is supposed to be.

I don't even remember exactly what i'm responding to anymore.

But this is what i have against catholics:
They are the ones that originally made christianity something it wasn't supposed to be, and have put a big block in front of millions of people such as gemini so they can't see God for what He really is.

I used to be Catholic too.

So I have nothing against them

Bye N Have a nice day

Yeah, people are morons and don't know anything about world history.

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And since i was taught only catholic beliefs, what is the DIFFERENCE between protestant beliefs and Catholic beliefs?

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The main difference is that Protestants believe that salvation can be achieved through being a good person in general and loving god. In Catholicism, an individual must participate in the holy sacraments and actually "work" to achieve salvation.

I used to be a Catholic. Try siting through hours of catechism