I find it interesting for people blaming God for the condition the world is now.

Kind of like victimizing rapist because of the way some girls dress.

How about we as humankind take a good long look int he mirror before we decide to point a finger?

Shade:

Benevolence and Judge can be virtues shared by the same person. Simple because God can decipher righteousness from evil doesn't make him any less benevolent. God is pure and perfect, so how can purity exist where corruption does? I need oxygen to survive, so how I can live somewhere where there is not oxygen? It's really not that hard to conceive.

I do not know why God let the earth get this way but I do know that Jesus is coming and the world will get worst but after that it wil be paridise on earth for aa thousand years

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Where did you get this idea from? I have not heard it before. From what I have studied Satan had free will and decided that he should be God, and that after he was sent out of heaven he tried to work against the opposite of what God does, and the opposite of good is evil.

I have this from a source as reliable as your Bible. Also. God is not good. He is a dictator, a god of order.

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My point in giving physical evidence is to provide a basis for a belief in God

You've given physical evidence? Anyhow, my comment was directed more towards the people who were asking for the evidence.

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He created them to be good but there is and alsways will be free will and free will can cause evil.

Free will is almost nonexistant when you're addicted to someone's presence. You've never been in love, have you? This is much more intense than that could ever be. I stand by the belief he had a damn good reason and was just a fool. Whoever claims to know why he caused the first Fall is an idiot. Man was not around for that.

I concur, clpo.

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Why would God, who is good, allow the world to become as crappy as it is now? If he exists, he must not care about the world. If he doesn't exist, then that explains why the world is the way it is. No one has been able to explain why God lets innocent children starve and die from AIDS simply because their government keeps them from food and adequate medical treatment. How can this simply be human evil? Why won't God step in to help at least somewhat? I can't believe in a religion that tells me God loves us all when my experience has shown me that God ignores us most of the time.

That is true. Even I, with the faith that I have in Gods existence cannot explain that. And I must admit that though I do believe in God I have questioned why there are so many injustices in the world and why people suffer so. I had no answers but that "God works in mysterious ways" and that sometimes, many times, is not enough to satisfy my thirst for answers or for justice.

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Originally posted by Nephilem:
So you believe that the Bible is false? If so what basses is there for that belief?

I don't believe the Bible is false. I simply lack the belief that it is true. I don't profess belief either way. The Bible, as I've said before, just is. I really don't care if it's true or false, so I don't have an opinion either way.

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So the question that I was trying to hit on is why you have faith in your belief over a belief in Christianity.

Why do I believe what I believe rather than in Christianity? Because I've found Christianity lacking. It doesn't provide satisfying answers. And I don't mean I want specific answers; I mean Christianity has always left gaping holes in any explanation given. Why would God, who is good, allow the world to become as crappy as it is now? If he exists, he must not care about the world. If he doesn't exist, then that explains why the world is the way it is. No one has been able to explain why God lets innocent children starve and die from AIDS simply because their government keeps them from food and adequate medical treatment. How can this simply be human evil? Why won't God step in to help at least somewhat? I can't believe in a religion that tells me God loves us all when my experience has shown me that God ignores us most of the time.

As for my beliefs, well, they seem most logical to me. I have an exceedingly hard time believing in a supernatural creation of the universe, so the only other option is a random universe born of coincidence and chance. Do I claim this is true? No. I don't know if it is a true belief or not. But it really doesn't matter, does it? The truth (whatever it is) is still the truth no matter what I claim to believe. The universe could have come out of the nose of a giant goat for all I know. But does holding that belief change the way the universe really did come about? No, of course not. So it doesn't matter what I believe, so long as I believe something, and that something is what seems most logical and reasonable to me.

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God promised not to distroy enitre cities and people and all that after the flood. Therefore he could not of sent that stuff.

Actually, he made a pact with Noah not to destroy every single living thing on Earth with a flood. But it says nothing about not smiting cities or small portions of the Earth.

Edit: Here are the verses:

"And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth." Genesis 9:12-17

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This is ridiculous. There is no theological reasoning behind this, and the even the Roman Catholic church is condsidering changing its policy on condoms. The risk of sexual disease transmission with a condom is not only miniscule, it is almost non-existant.

Not the point!!!!

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I enjoy the irony of asking this question: Do you have any proof that it wasn't sent by God? And don't mention the warning problem, because God just doesn't intervene in the world on the same scale anymore, does he? No seas parting, no believers saved from evil dictators, etc.

God promised not to distroy enitre cities and people and all that after the flood. Therefore he could not of sent that stuff.

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How can a purely good being create something that has a taint of evil? If angels came from God, and were a part of him--and Man for that matter--he has no evil. He is good. How has evil come to be?

He created them to be good but there is and alsways will be free will and free will can cause evil.

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I don't recall you ever saying that.

I do it was the first post he posted or maybe the second but it was somewhere up there

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Do you think someone who avidly loves angels and the fallen ( me, if you couldn't grasp that )doesn't know that?

I was clarifying more for the benefit of every one, did not mean to offend you. Sorry

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He had a taint of evil

Where did you get this idea from? I have not heard it before. From what I have studied Satan had free will and decided that he should be God, and that after he was sent out of heaven he tried to work against the opposite of what God does, and the opposite of good is evil.

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So you claim that he always tells us before he punishes us. But I doubt that. Does not God work in mysterious ways?

The way I think of God punishment is as a protective umbrella. He provides us protection, but if we chose to disobey and step out from under the protective umbrella we will suffer the consequences.

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You simply can't prove a spiritual thing by physical evidence.

Yes I know. My point in giving physical evidence is to provide a basis for a belief in God. There will always be trust involved.

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And I am trying to explain this to you I will use little words when you don't have a relationship with God then you are happy but it is like you are not because you tend to feel like something is missing, therefore creating a false sense of happiness because you are happy (or you think you are) but you are not because in the end you keep worrying about what is missing.

Life sometimes feels empty, people wonder why they exist, what is the meaning of life and sometimes just for no reason they feel empty. Since they don't like to feel like that they MAKE UP a God. So I could actually say the same thing but the other way around, yours could be a false sense of happiness. But, as I was trying to explain to you, since I don't believe in God it is not my place to say that people who do have a false sense of happiness. Because I can't know that(since I don't believe in God). I hope you get that I was giving you that as an example, if not well...whatever.

I realise you guys have moved on, but I'd just like to say that the days I do everything I was supposed to and don't do anything especially sinful, I feel way more complete than the days when I skip the prayers or lie to my parents etc. That could be a sense of accomplishment compared to a sense of guilt, but if God created those emotions then how do I know that God didn't cause me to feel them? These arguments can just go round and round, there's no logical answer. There's just belief or disbelief and personal reasons that motivate them.

Yeah, I concur with Shade. Good point Shade.

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You simply can't prove a spiritual thing by physical evidence. The two are completely different aspects of reality.

You are right.

Nephilim:

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Actually Satan used to be an angle, who decided to try and over throw God. God does not deny free will.

No shit he used to be an angel. Do you think someone who avidly loves angels and the fallen ( me, if you couldn't grasp that )doesn't know that? He had a taint of evil. A taint of evil, that was something a bit more than the warring spirits of his bretheren. I restate my question. How can a purely good being create something that has a taint of evil? If angels came from God, and were a part of him--and Man for that matter--he has no evil. He is good. How has evil come to be?

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I’m sorry I should have clarified by statement, it was too broad. What I meant was things like 9-11, and Katrina were not sent by God.

So you claim that he always tells us before he punishes us. But I doubt that. Does not God work in mysterious ways?

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I have said before that I can not prove that God exists. I can not prove that my religion is true.

I don't recall you ever saying that.

- - -

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and saying that they were not sent by God at all.

Because everyone, Nephilim knows God's thoughts.

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*bangs head against wall*

*nods calmly* Don't lose your cool, guys; he's never going to get it.


But as a note to everyone. You simply can't prove a spiritual thing by physical evidence. The two are completely different aspects of reality. It's like asking a scientist, well why did the bread get moldy? He can't tell you why, but he can tell you how. Spiritualism and religon cannot and will not ever answer the questions you ask. So stop asking them. Go to a scientist for the How questions. Go to religon for the Why questions. And would someone please pay attention when I say this, this time? So someone can get their head out of their ass and start seeing that they're looking at things crooked?

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Do you have actual EVIDENCE(not faith) that the SPIRITUAL ASPECTS of the Bible are true?

Maybe you should read my posts; I have said before that I can not prove that God exists. I can not prove that my religion is true. I can make a very strong case for what I believe, and my religion can never be ended, but I can prove that I am right; some amount of faith is always required.
The Point that I was making is, you believe something as well. You believe in a theory of how we got here and what our lives mean that also requires Faith. So the question that I was trying to hit on is why you have faith in your belief over a belief in Christianity.

Are you alright, Maya? You seem a little wound up.

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Actually I was giving examples of events, (that some have said were sent by God.) and saying that they were not sent by God at all.

I enjoy the irony of asking this question: Do you have any proof that it wasn't sent by God? And don't mention the warning problem, because God just doesn't intervene in the world on the same scale anymore, does he? No seas parting, no believers saved from evil dictators, etc.

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So you believe that the Bible is false? If so what basses is there for that belief?

Nephilem I can't take you seriously anymore. HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES HAS EVERYONE GONE OVER THIS WITH YOU? You keep on repeating the same thing over and over and over again! Why don't you go back to the other 500 times you asked the same exact fucking question and read the responses instead of asking the same thing AGAIN. And just wanted to point out that what clpo said was "I can't believe the Bible because there is no evidence that the spiritual aspects are true." Do you have actual EVIDENCE(not faith) that the SPIRITUAL ASPECTS of the Bible are true? NO.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: NightSkyMod,

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If so what basses is there for that belief?

*bangs head against wall*

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I think that you are demeaning the people who endured those disasters by giving them as examples of micro manegment. You should be ashamed.

Actually I was giving examples of events, (that some have said were sent by God.) and saying that they were not sent by God at all.

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Given my correct definition of a tyranny, Chrisitianity is a tyranny; God is the ruler of the state, and he wealds the only executive power. It is the very definition of a tyranny.

First of all I think that theocracy would be more appropriate, and closer to describing a religious government than tyranny. And secondly Christianity is not a government it is a religion.

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Now, I can't believe the Bible because there is no evidence that the spiritual aspects are true.

So you believe that the Bible is false? If so what basses is there for that belief?

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Satan for a time has a amount of power in the Universe because man open the Dore for Satan, But God has limited his Time, on earth. So God does Fight Satan, but does not stop every thing that Satan does.

You're right. In this case, he even made a deal with him.

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He never spoke to me through the bible or through xians. In fact, both those things turned me off to God.

I'm agreeing with Shade on this one. In my case, you don't need organized religion-- whether it be Christianity, Islam, Judaism-- to have a relationship with God. It doesn't always work.

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God does tell you about himself. He talks to us through his word the Bible, and through other Christians. So God is using me to tell you about Him.

Well if that's true, he's doing a poor job of it. You're no closer to making me believe God exists than a friend of mine is to making me believe witchcraft exists.

Now, I can't believe the Bible because there is no evidence that the spiritual aspects are true. I can't believe other humans because humans are fallible and can lie. The only way I'll be convinced that God exists is if he tells me himself. Subtle signs won't work. Actions through other people won't work. And the Bible certainly won't work. I have no more cause to believe the Bible than I do to believe the Qu'ran. Actually, the Qu'ran is probably more believable since it is considered one of the most poetic Arabic works of all time and it was dictated by an illiterate. But I don't believe either book because neither has evidence to support its spiritual claims.

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Beacuse to live for God you have to be willing to give up everything and some people just can't give up their cell phones and TV and cars and all that junk.

Actually, this is not why I don't want to live for God. I could live without my personal belongings. But I won't give my life over to anyone. I am my own person, and if that's selfish, then so be it.