It's different for every person. I could tell you what it was for me, but it would be a far cry from what it might be for you. You have to be willing to see the truth, even if it is illogical or unscientific when it comes. You will never hear truth if you can't learn to listen!
Shade I hope this doesn't sound unpleasant -it's not my intention to bother you, I'm just curious- but every time we talk about spiritual issues you say I could tell you about what led me to beleif but you never do. I understand your point of faith being something personal, but it seems as if you deliberately avoid clarifying this point, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one intrigued by your words on the matter.
Oh, I take offense to that, even though you don't know how to spell it. Please stop using religous slurs. Especially in the Spirituality board of all places.
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But no one--I repeat, no one--has been able to tell me just what I should open my eyes and look for.
It's different for every person. I could tell you what it was for me, but it would be a far cry from what it might be for you. You have to be willing to see the truth, even if it is illogical or unscientific when it comes. You will never hear truth if you can't learn to listen!
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And for as many people that have been saved by faith, there are just as many who have been let down by it.
I said that. I myself have been let down by faith. It does not deny the fact that faith is a powerful thing.
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It should be readily obvious if it's that important that I believe in something.
Truth is not always found at our fingertips. The finding of truth is a journey that can span lifetimes. Sacred Labyrinths are evidence of this. It is symbolic of a deep journey through life, and the otherworlds, to a place where you can find truth. Truth is there only for the willing and worthy to find. It cannot be seen by simply looking out of you window. It needs to be searched for. Asking for it to be at your fingertips is the coward's way out.
...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
People like you are all the proof I need to know the Bible's best used for rolling spliff's. Religion is the excuse used by those that fear what they don't know, and who are unable to accept the fact that they as individuals will not transcend death.
Finn, to say we can't know the truth, put little potential on man kind, and degrades the abilities of any God that could exist.
Your saying that we are too naive to understand, and God is to haughty to explain.
I'm not saying that God is haughty. I don't think God exists. I'm not saying that we're too naive to understand. I'm saying we don't have the means to discover the truths we're looking for.
I think you should reread this statement and see what Finn was referring to. You might want to rephrase it:
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I understand that you want me to verify it but there is nothing to verify that is my opinion and what I think is true God made the Earth so worship him.
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Why not?
I could be way off here, but I think LTR was trying to say she won't believe in something she thinks is fantasy. So your question there made no sense.
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
It can be proven, and I'm willing to bet it has been proven to you. But you just haven't opened your eyes.
What the hell am I supposed to be looking for? You're not the first to tell me I haven't "seen the truth," so to speak. But no one--I repeat, no one--has been able to tell me just what I should open my eyes and look for. The universe is no evidence of a maker, no more than a rock that looks somewhat like a man is evidence of a sculptor. The universe itself is not evidence. The mere possibility that it could have come about randomly means I can't automatically accept that it was planned and created by some intelligence.
And for as many people that have been saved by faith, there are just as many who have been let down by it. I could go about my life and have faith that God will protect me. Two possibilities exist (for me, at least): I could have no wrongs done to me and rejoice in my faith, or I could be cruelly injured and wonder why God let me down. Why bother with that at all? Life sucks sometimes, and I don't need faith to make me feel better about that.
But if there is proof out there of the sort that matters, I shouldn't need to look for it. It should be readily obvious if it's that important that I believe in something. But as far as I've been told, the answers I seek are hidden. I won't be able to find them unless I know exactly what I'm looking for. But if I know exactly what I'm looking for, I won't need to look, will I?
The problem is that I don't know what to look for or where to look for it. And nothing annoys me more than being told I should just "open my eyes" as if the answers will magically appear in front of me. Tough luck. I tried that and nothing happened. Because I didn't know what I was looking for.
Excuse me for being annoyed. I have a strong dislike for being told how important faith is when I've gotten along just fine without it for the past two or three years. I don't need faith to hold me up.
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Originally posted by Eagle63B: Your saying that we are too naive to understand, and God is to haughty to explain.
That's exactly it. As I said above, I can't find the answers by myself, but the only ways God is willing to give them to me are ways that I can't understand. As I've been told by many people, God works in subtle ways. But I'm a guy; I don't do subtle.
Finn, to say we can't know the truth, put little potential on man kind, and degrades the abilities of any God that could exist.
Your saying that we are too naive to understand, and God is to haughty to explain.
I also don't understand your statement on "simple realities". You seem to imply that there is a more complex reality... but if your barely aware of the simple ones, what complex ones could you possibly refer to....
"Come now, and let us reason together!" Says the Lord... -Isaiah 1:18
there was a girl in my community that stoped hanging out with my frinds and i when she found out that we were all mormons. she is a toatal wich. i asked her why she stoped hanging out with us beacuse of her religion, she said it was beacause our church members were freaks beacuse we beleave in being modest and kind and honest and don't swear. she sid that her mom told her that mormons always try to force you to jion thier religion wich is toatally not true!
If you want to do the fun stuff, you have to go through the hard stuff
Or enlightened. Or seduced. Or lost. Or seeking. Or content. Or fallen. Or loved. Or beaten into submission.... There's not only two sides to an issue.
...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
I prefer the humility of knowing that I know very little, can barely verify simple realities around me, and will never be capable of figuring out if a god exists.
You can think you know the Truth, but you can't. You're either an agnostic or hopelessly deluded.
They can't. There's too much of their logic interfering with their imagination.
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Anything that can never be proven isn't worth my time. Faith isn't good enough.
It can be proven, and I'm willing to bet it has been proven to you. But you just haven't opened your eyes. When will you see that this whole world is proof of the Source's existance? When will you see that the mere fact that you live and breath and rationalize is a gift from your Maker? People have been saved and killed by faith. It is a life and death thing. If it's that powerful, there must be something behind it. Proof anyone could give you! From shamans to Christians, to Druids! But would you believe it if you saw it? Would you know truth if it hit you in the face? It is not your kind of proof, but does that make it false? Does that make it lies? Or delusions? No. That's just your brain filtering the information. Well stop filtering, and look around you. Look at the world with the eyes of someone who has faith, someone who knows that this is not mere chance, someone who believes in something greater. Put yourself in their shoes and their belief. It is not so hard to do. It just takes a little imagination and trust.
...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
I understand that you want me to verify it but there is nothing to verify that is my opinion and what I think is true God made the Earth so worship him.
I doubt the loves Him, but yes, he does believe in Him of course.
Well, why shouldn't he love him? Morningstar is an Angel after all. He's still an Angel, even after all that he did. ( I don't know.. neither of us are him. )
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Well, just wanted to get that point across.
That's what we've all been trying to say, drummerlady. ...And since you're talking to us, you might need to come up with some other proof to convince us doubters over here.
...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
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It's different for every person. I could tell you what it was for me, but it would be a far cry from what it might be for you. You have to be willing to see the truth, even if it is illogical or unscientific when it comes. You will never hear truth if you can't learn to listen!
