But he's not. He's a god, not a slave.

I see it as a reminder that even when times get tough the Lord is always there to help and even though it doesn't seem like it He is there.

...meh?

( laymans terms: the point of that...was? Because it's something we've all probably heard, and also a nice little poem, but too optomistic, too unrealistic, and it's just plain lies. )

Footprints in the Sand

One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord. Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.

In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand. Sometimes there were two sets of footprints, other times there was one only.

This bothered me because I noticed that during the low periods of my life, when I was suffering from anguish, sorrow or defeat, I could see only one set of footprints, so I said to the Lord,

“You promised me Lord,
that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I have noticed that during the most trying periods of my life there has only been one set of footprints in the sand. Why, when I needed you most, have you not been there for me?”

The Lord replied, “The years when you have seen only one set of footprints, my child, is when I carried you.”


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mary Stevenson, 1936

quote:

Sometimes we feel like God has abandoned us in times of hardship.

He probably has. I don't know who you were talking to, clpo, but I don't have much faith in my God. I do believe he exists, though.

I know where you're coming from. I'm there right now. God doesn't answer me, or even seem to hear me. The only "entity" who seems to respond is Nature ( and that makes me sound just plain crazy ). I once had proof that he existed, and I have memories of that proof, so I still believe, but regardless of how many times I pray, or how much I want him to listen, he just doesn't answer.

God can ignore you, but can he be blocked entirely from being able to hear you or send messages to you? I think that's true. The mediators between God and humans ( angels ) and the mediators between the Morningstar and humans ( demons ) might stop it. Yahweh isn't all powerful; he's just very powerful. I guess.

Err, does that make sense?

And it had no real place in the debate except to prove, once again, that I can't pick sides in any context or discussion.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding on what I said before that bothered you, YV. What I mean(and this is all my fault for bad wording) is that with all the work every christian does to try to save people, like missions, church, and other events, they touch many people not all of them gets save, but it is enough just to educate them about it. I believe that even if only one person was saved that it would be worth it. Like when activist work so hard to raise money to save one whale, one landmark, or one child, at the end it was worth it. Sure the goal was to save more, but stuff happens. I am sorry, cplo, that you didn't feel the same feelings that friends and I have. The good thing about God, speed, is that he doesn't answer the way any of us would expect. Talking to God isn't like talking to things. God isn't a thing.

If you replace the name God with Tom, or Alan. Youd be locked up and medicated.

Not everyone has faith as strong as yours. In fact, some of us (such as yours truly) have no faith in God. Why is this? Well, there are many reasons. Sometimes we feel like God has abandoned us in times of hardship. In my case, it was because I never "felt" God in any way. I never received answers to prayers, I never felt comforted when I prayed for it, and even when I was teetering on the edge of abandoning my faith, God wouldn't help. I asked him for help and got nothing. It's kind of hard to believe in God when he doesn't help you when you need it most. I once thought I knew God was there, but since then, I've found I really don't know.

I don't claim to be an atheist, however. I don't believe God doesn't exist. I simply lack the belief that he does as a result of any lack of evidence. God, if he exists, won't talk to me. Even back when I was strong in my faith that God was there for me, I felt nothing. I still believed because I wanted him to be there. But years of being ignored takes a toll on a person. Maybe God isn't there. Or maybe I'm just not hearing him. But because I'm not a man who has faith in things without evidence of their existence, I have gone my own way and found that I don't really need God at all. But my mind is still open if he exists and decides to let me know.

So, not everyone "knows" God is there. And the people who don't know for sure are the ones who often lose their faith.

Ah, well that's nice Shade. It's a good short story. I liked it. Her statement still bothers me, even though I see your point. I don't agree with the fact that "it makes up." I guess it was the wording she used that really bothered me.

Oh, well. There was a beach with a million starfishes ( or whatever ), and this girl was throwing them back in. Someone approached her and asked why she was doing it, if she couldn't save them all, and she replied, as she threw one back in, it mattered to that one.

quote:

Well, YV, I think she refers to the analogy of starfish and the ocean? For everyone who gets thrown back, it matters to them, even if you can't save them all?

Ah, I had not heard of that one. Perhaps you are right.

quote:

I also talk to things, that doesn't imply they answer.

True, true.

I don't think, it's anyone's responsibility to "save" anyone else. As I've stated before; religon and the pursuit of god is an individual journey. To take that responsibility upon yourself is pretty dumb; it takes a toll.

Well, YV, I think she refers to the analogy of starfish and the ocean? For everyone who gets thrown back, it matters to them, even if you can't save them all?

quote:

I talk with God

I also talk to things, that doesn't imply they answer.

quote:

No I can't save everyone, but for everyone person that gets save it makes up for every person that goes to hell.

According to the teachings of the Bible you can't save anyone. You don't have the power to do that. It is by the blood of Jesus that they get saved not by your doing. And how can you say that for every person saved it is making up for every person that goes to hell? I thought every soul mattered as an individual. That statement right there is anti-biblical. Just thought I'd point that out since that statement bothered me when I read it.

I don't think I am following blindly. There are some things that I know are true to what I believe, things that are close to me that I care about. I talk with God when I am scared, hurt, or led astray, I feel peace afterwards. I know that everyone is not going to believe what I believe, but with my faith and some teachings I can lead people towards God. No I can't save everyone, but for everyone person that gets save it makes up for every person that goes to hell.

I don't need to believe in God. *headtilt* Not all of us fall into that category.

good one speed. lol

anyway...to the person who started this thread...umm you ask why do people turn away from God, well I can only speak for myself here. I never turned away from God because I never believed in God in the first place. I think some people need to believe in God which is completely fine by me, but if you don't (which is my case) need it and there's nothing to lead you to think that IT exists(not HE) why should you just have blind faith? and don't give me the answer that you KNOW, because you can't prove it. You can strongly have faith but you don't actually know for a fact.

Define this "feeling", and then tell me why blindly believing in something you cannot empirically prove is so admirable.

quote:

You do not feel god.

Why's that?

quote:

So why don't other people get it too? Why turn away when God is so close?

I've said this before and I'll say it again:
You do not feel god.
You want to feel him(him?), so you choose to missinterpret everything that happens around you and give god the credit. Stop lying to yourself.
Sorry if that hurt but it's true, and I can't help but feel sorry for those of you so caught up in your faith.