19:36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

Just out of curiosity, what argument do Christians have for this scripture? After all... God just saved them and then all of a sudden Lot and his daughters are partaking in incest.

It seems that my argument won out. *bows* No really, what do you Christians say to the verses I quoted?

quote:

Originally posted by CelticNewAger:
And WwF, don't leave. Look at how many people have insulted me, and I'm still here. You have to pass people's comment where the sun don't hit ya.

This is what I realized the first time I considered leaving due to BoMoWo. I hate to sound like a whiner, but everyone else on here (no matter how much I have disagreed with some of them), have been fairly easy to get along with. BoMoWo has endlessly put me down and destroyed everything I have said. That truly hurts me. I don't want to put up with it.

But I also realize that he is merely one person out of several wonderful people on here (like yourself) and I do try my best to ignore him, though he makes it awfully hard.

This is the last response I will make directly to you, BoMoWo. If you insist on harassing me and saying horrible things about me, you can leave. Don't respond if you insist on doing these things. I will report you to the Y/N staff because that is not appropiate at all.

quote:

Now I have heard everything! You have claimed to be God as well as denying God's power it is pathetic, I don't understand why you shame the name of Christ with your mindless ramblings it is an embarassment to true Christians everywhere.

You disgust me with your egotistical- polytheistic beliefs. Why don't you just build an altar to yourself and declare yourself to be omniscient too?

I have not claimed to be God (evidence please), nor have I denied God's power (evidence please). Do not say I am not a true Christian. All I must do to be a true Christian is believe in God and believe He exists, that He will watch over me. I am not egotistical. You obviously have no idea who I am. Polytheistic? Do you know the meaning of this word? I only believe in one God, my friend. I don't understand why you even said that last statement.

quote:

redstateus I advise you not to waste your time debating WWF she does not hold to any biblical principals.

I have plenty of biblical principles (learn to spell), you just refuse to accept them. Though I must admit, I do not have any biblical principals, as I don't own any leading persons or chief officers of an educational institution.

quote:

In which I debated WWF and found that she not only believes many things contradictory to what she calls her faith, but she uses no facts, no references, and nothing in the Bible to back up what she says. I had the exact debate with her that redstateus is or was about to have. She refused to debate me because she could not give evidence for any of her theories.

I don't have contradictory beliefs. You refuse to see or understand what I believe. You never asked me for any specific Bible references in regards to any of my statements. If you had, I would have gave them to you. You are still telling lies, BoMoWo: I did not refuse to debate you because of lack of evidence but because you insisted on insulting me on every single point. I don't debate with people who wish to insult me and what I believe.

quote:

sometimes however it angers me when people like WWF give my faith a bad name, and sometimes it pushes me over the edge. Very rarely do I do what I did in this post, if you don't believe me check my other posts on the site.

This is also a lie. You have spoke in this manner in every post you have written to me.

Also, you give your faith a bad name, not I.

quote:

I take a stronger tone against anyone who claims to be a Christian and does not actually hold to what the Bible declares as truth.

1. You have no right to say who is acting as a Christian and who is not.
2. "Stronger tones" (i.e. insults) only bring forth hate, not a good debate nor obedience.
3. This statement is such like a man. Do you fear the power of women?

jazzeykitten

Thanks for somewhat defending me. I truly no longer wish to argue with BoMoWo since he insists on insulting me and saying I do not believe in what I say I believe and making me feel...well, terrible. I mean, seriously, what kind of Christian is supposed to make another one feel terrible?

Your second statement was kind of what I was getting at. Yes, I believe the Bible is true and right and I wholeheartedly believe in it. But, logically, I could be wrong. I won't find out for a very long time. And instead of having that notion that I might be wrong, I figured I'd go with the notion that we may all be right.

I see what you're saying about myths and have thought this before too. But since I believe that it actually happened (as in, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it did), it doesn't seem as ridiculous to me.

quote:

As for the Leviticus issue. The fact that ppl don't follow them doesn't make them un true. The entire Bible is true and without contradictions.

Can you honestly tell me that you try to follow every single rule in Leviticus? If this is true, I have news for you...

quote:

Christians is that what is in the Bible actually happened

You are well on the road to a dangerous and lethal complacency which will slap you in the face one day.

And WwF, don't leave. Look at how many people have insulted me, and I'm still here. You have to pass people's comment where the sun don't hit ya.

Oh my gosh. Please stop talking about me. Just leave me alone, BoMoWo. I don't wish to discuss anything with you. I was having a fine debate with jazzeykitten. I did not ask you to come here and destroy me once again. The last time you posted all of this about me, I almost left Y/N. Please just leave me alone.

Let me ask you a question, have you read the "We can't both be right and I want the truth" post?

In which I debated WWF and found that she not only believes many things contradictory to what she calls her faith, but she uses no facts, no references, and nothing in the Bible to back up what she says. I had the exact debate with her that redstateus is or was about to have. She refused to debate me because she could not give evidence for any of her theories.

For example, it is this simple If I say that I am a football player, there is a rule book and it is expected of me that I follow the rules otherwise I will not be allowed to play the game.

WWF is like someone who says she plays football, yetfollows no rules, doesn't know what the rules are and claims to be a real football player. It is outrageous.

As for a mature debate, I debate in a very mature manner, sometimes however it angers me when people like WWF give my faith a bad name, and sometimes it pushes me over the edge. Very rarely do I do what I did in this post, if you don't believe me check my other posts on the site.

Oh and as for your question to me about whether I feel like I am following Christ, or being like Him, I do, you have not read the new testament very much if you do not understand that. When Jesus addressed the sadduces and pharisees, He was not the American Jesus that we have concocted today. Many times he was very harsh in correcting them because their hearts were hard.

I take a stronger tone against anyone who claims to be a Christian and does not actually hold to what the Bible declares as truth.

Now, as for this statement:

quote:

And you know what, Pagans believed in all those things generations before Jesus. Christianity was not new. Christianity was not unique. Christianity borrowed way more than the story of a Godman with magic powers who came back to life after he died. The first Christians took the basic ideas of their culture and adapted them to their new faith. Like all the ancient Pagans, they built a new religion out of old parts.

Let me remind you that the main difference between the pagans and Christians is that what is in the Bible actually happened whereas with the pagans it was intermingled fact with fiction and mostly ficticious all the time.

quote:

I have found none could you show them to me?

You have found none because you are not looking. Open your eyes! Very first book of the Bible: two completely different accounts of creation, and both contradict each other.

More contradictions:

Regarding the amount of gods there are, Dt.4:35 says, "Unto thee it was shewed(sic), that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him." However, Ex.22:28 states that, "Thou shalt not revile the gods." I'm sensing mixed messages here.

Regarding the God-ness of Jesus, Jn.1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Yet Jn.8:40 (the same book), it says, "But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God."

Is every word of God pure? Pr.30:5 says that exact thing: "Every word of God is pure." However, God goes and says, "Hath he not sent me to the mean which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own **** with you?" in 2 Kg.18:27. What gives?

An even better question is whether or not the Scriptures were inspired by God. In 2 Tim.3:16 it says, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God...." but 1 Cor.7:12 specifically states, "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord."

Christians are sinners according to Rom.3:23: "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." However, 1 Jn.3:6 disagrees: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not."

Want more proof? I've got a whole load of it. The Bible is contradictory. Live with it.

Also, while I'm on the subject, the Bible also has a lot to say about family values:

And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. Dt.2:34

Abraham married his sister, and God blessed their marriage (Gen.17:15-16). Gen.20:12

If you have a "stubborn and rebellious son," then you and the other men in your neighborhood "shall stone him with stones that he die." Dt.21:18-21

God sends two bears to rip up 42 little children for making fun of Elisha's bald head. 2 Kg.2:23-24

God mercilessly kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children. Lamentations 2:20-22

Lot, who in Gen.19:8 offers his two virgin daughters to a crowd of angel rapers and later(19:30-38) impregnates them, was a "righteous man." 2 Peter 2:8

The Bible is an amusing book.

quote:

Originally posted by BoMoWo:
redstateus I advise you not to waste your time debating WWF she does not hold to any biblical principals.

Whoa. At least WWF can have a mature debate about religion.

It's "Christians" like you that I sneer at. Your statement... "You disgust me with your egotistical- polytheistic beliefs. Why don't you just build an altar to yourself and declare yourself to be omniscient too?" You know the word "Christian" translate to "like Christ". Is that what you call yourself doing?

WWF, look at stories that pre-date the bible. There are so many similarities. Your Bible could be right, even if I don't believe it.

In the ancient world, great men were often understood to be born of mortal women and divine fathers/Gods. Have you ever noticed how stupid other people's myths are?... Until you notice this is our "myth" too.

quote:

Originally posted by redstateus:
oh yeah one more thing I forgot, what peganism is Christianity supposed to have come from? The only foundational beliefs of christianity acredited to alother religion is Judaism.

How did you come to this conclusion? There are plenty of religions that pre-date Christianity.

Besides Jesus, Christianity believes in one God -- and more than that, in a personal God who steps in to make people's lives better, or not, and who punishes us for doing bad things, and rewards us for being good. Christianity believes in prayer, in eternal life, in miracles, in prophecy, in a human soul, in heaven and hell.

And you know what, Pagans believed in all those things generations before Jesus. Christianity was not new. Christianity was not unique. Christianity borrowed way more than the story of a Godman with magic powers who came back to life after he died. The first Christians took the basic ideas of their culture and adapted them to their new faith. Like all the ancient Pagans, they built a new religion out of old parts.

redstateus I advise you not to waste your time debating WWF she does not hold to any biblical principals.

quote:

And don't tell me I don't believe in God. That makes you an ***hole. I happen to combine logic with my faith in God. That makes it more reliable than the Bible.

Now I have heard everything! You have claimed to be God as well as denying God's power it is pathetic, I don't understand why you shame the name of Christ with your mindless ramblings it is an embarassment to true Christians everywhere.

You disgust me with your egotistical- polytheistic beliefs. Why don't you just build an altar to yourself and declare yourself to be omniscient too?

oh yeah one more thing I forgot, what peganism is Christianity supposed to have come from? The only foundational beliefs of christianity acredited to alother religion is Judaism.

worthwaitingfor, I didn't say you didn't believe in God I said that you don't be lieve in the God of the Bible. As for your comments about different religiongs all being the same...Its just not possible. If one religion disagrees with another(which is what makes them different and separate) then both or all cannot be true. The Bible clearly says when Jesus is speaking"noone comes to the father but through me" that doesn't mean that you can think he's just like any other dude but he has to be the son of God. As for the Leviticus issue. The fact that ppl don't follow them doesn't make them un true. The entire Bible is true and without contradictions. And for celtic I still have noide what you mean or how that applies.
The fact is that The Bible is 100% true from cover to cover and there are no contradictions. Which means that it is completely logical. You can't imporve on the Bible. Tell me why I shouldn't believe the Bible

quote:

Originally posted by jazzeykitten:
You think slavery is outlawed? OMG. You're kidding right? Slavery is rampant in Africa. Then you have the illegal sex slave trade in Eastern Europe. That's beside the point though.

You do know what I believe because your arguing with me about it.

I asked you a completely different question though, so I don't know why you're repeating yourself. I was mentioning how the Bible copies story for story writings that pre-date the Bible. That's fact. I'm curious as to why that is.

Well, obviously I thought you meant in the United States. Give me a break. I wasn't aware we were extending this past the borders. Silly me. Non-Christians intent on bashing the Bible like to expand their arguments to fit their needs.

When I said that, I meant your belief system. Obviously you don't believe in the Bible, God, Christianity, etc. So what do you believe? Nothing?

I haven't researched Pagans to Christianity so you'll have to excuse me if I can't answer this question.

But I have had a similar theory to what you're getting at: I have said before that perhaps all religions are right, that we're all right. The main religions in the world, excluding Hinduism, are monotheistic and have a central God-like figure. They teach good morals and basically don't let their people go on rampant killing sprees.

So, my proposal is that, just because a good, decent person who doesn't do anything terribly wrong but he doesn't believe in God should he go to Hell? No. I don't agree with this at all. I don't think good people should go to Hell simply because they believe in Allah.

Now I know that my religion says the only way to Heaven is through God. But doesn't Islam say basically the same thing only God is Allah and Heaven is something else? So doesn't that make sense that as long as someone follows a good moral belief system than he or she will have everlasting life?

It makes sense to me.

quote:

Try reading leviticus where it talks about sexual sins. and for worthwaitingfor If your God doesn't have the ability to keep the Bible unscewed and trust worthy then you don't believe in the same God as the one descibed in the Bible.

All of the laws in Leviticus are outdated and no longer followed. I advise you to ignore them.

And don't tell me I don't believe in God. That makes you an ***hole. I happen to combine logic with my faith in God. That makes it more reliable than the Bible.

Think of it this way...

You are standing in front of a wall, your eyes are covered. The person next to you says the wall is blue because he sees it. You say it's purple, though you can't see.

please explain what you mean

quote:

WOW, that's one interesting conversation you have going on there. I can tell that worthwaitingfor has recognised the power of the bible and that jazzey has severly misread it. However, niether of you are right. I want to make it clear that I practice a strict exogesis of the Bible. This means that because it is THE MOST RELIABLE document ever written and that it has never been proven false or in error that everything in it is true. Everything in it is the inspired word of God and is to be taken in context. Isogesis or reading our own "wisdom" in to the bible is where you get into trouble. The Bible never condones insest or slavery. Try reading leviticus where it talks about sexual sins. and for worthwaitingfor If your God doesn't have the ability to keep the Bible unscewed and trust worthy then you don't believe in the same God as the one descibed in the Bible.

You are on the verge (if not already there) of a dangerous, thoughtless complacency.

I have found none could you show them to me?

I laugh at you, redstateus. The Bible is a work of fiction through and through. A good read, but not the writings of some divine author. Too many holes. Too many contradictions.

I'm in the same boat as you, jazzey, so I know what you're talking about.