The Soul or Spirit. Do they exist? Are they one and the same or different? Can it lead lives? Can it ascend to a higher being?

Discuss.

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Yes... But one shouldn't curb their opinions or arguments for the minority, especially if it's just a small shade, but that minority might still speak up and make a point. ( sometimes shot from a bowstring )

Haha...yeah.

Yes... But one shouldn't curb their opinions or arguments for the minority, especially if it's just a small shade, but that minority might still speak up and make a point. ( sometimes shot from a bowstring )

Hm, I see. Well to me it makes perfect sense, the analogy that is. I don't find it hard to understand and so I didn't think anyone else would. Though I guess it is wrong of me to assume that others would understand it too. I see your point though, Shade. Something else that made me think is that I know that you personally feel different about wolves in general. So that alone changes the whole concept. I hadn't thought about it that way.

People are moving past animal steryotypes. Not the mass majority, but understanding has begun anew. People with two eyes that they care to use can look and see the truth. They're not listening to religon as much any more; they're learning for themselves. Plus, that analogy is just plain foolish.

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For modern day applications, many analogies in the bible are no longer relevant or even accepted. Such as that.

How is it not? And by this question I mean this specific example.

For modern day applications, many analogies in the bible are no longer relevant or even accepted. Such as that.

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they are evil, but they can disguise as good spirits - as cunning and sly like the serpent and wolves - wolves in sheep's clothing.

Hm, I think orangegoddess was referring to what the Bible says in reference to serpents and wolves. Not necessarily about serpents or wolves lifestyles. You know those verses that say that Satan came in the form of a serpent and that the "Devil" can come as a wolf disguised in sheep clothing to trick believers. Just thought I'd point that out.

It's not a bad idea to research them anyway. You can learn a thing or two. Zoology is a rather interesting subject.

I too have to have the wolves' and snakes' backs on this. Anyone with some basic zoological knowledge should have an idea of wolf family structure and behavior, and snakes are just instinct driven mostly harmless diapsids.

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so its useless talking to the dead, they can't hear us nor know anything that is going on around them. but the evil spirits, they are there listening and trying to come up with tricks to trick us believing that they are the souls of the dead.

Forgive me for all my questions. But since when did chaos mean evil?

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those thingies that are wandering around us are not souls nor the souls of the dead or our loved ones. these are actually and truely evil spirits or should i say the dark spirits or angels of the dark side.. these spirits are invisible yet they can become visible if they want to. why? to scare us. to make us believe that they are who we think they are. these evil spirits are shape shifters. they can look like you, your dead relatives, an animal, they can even go inside your head when you're sleeping - like the dead actually "talking" to us stuff in our dreams. be not afraid of them. they're just there because Satan and his cohorts are out there looking for their prey and to be on their side.
and yes, they are evil, but they can disguise as good spirits - as cunning and sly like the serpent and wolves - wolves in sheep's clothing.

I...don't agree with you, an honestly, if you're going to use animals in a description like that, research the damned lifestyles. Wolves are NOT like that. I will stand for them, against everything. Don't misrepresent who they are. Learn before you speak; you make yourself look like a fool.

So according to this, Hamlet was correct in being weary of the ghost claiming to be his father, further supporting my argument in English class that his delay in action was reasonable.

Of course, I don't agree with you as I do not believe either souls or spirits exist.

Those who do: Why?

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OG, is the spirit the same as the soul? I've heard a theory that we posess both. The spirit came from the Source ( Your "God" ), and upon dying, that part of life is sent back to the Source, but the soul itself goes elsewhere.

And, no, my question meant exactly what it meant. Do souls exist.

Why would all souls who wander be evil?

Spirit and soul are two different things. like i just posted awhile back. we humans do possess both. we are composed by the earthly body (the dust), the soul, and the spirit. it is the presence of the spirit that makes us a living soul. the soul is our inner man. like in any sodas or spirited wine..the spirit makes the liquor or the drink come "alive"
when a person dies both the soul and the spirit goes back to God. the soul is the most precious thing to us when it comes to our salvation. because the soul is the thing that will either go to heaven or hell.
souls exist in the sense it is living inside our body. but when we are dead, our soul goes back to the hands of God. waiting for the judgement day. so its useless talking to the dead, they can't hear us nor know anything that is going on around them. but the evil spirits, they are there listening and trying to come up with tricks to trick us believing that they are the souls of the dead.

those thingies that are wandering around us are not souls nor the souls of the dead or our loved ones. these are actually and truely evil spirits or should i say the dark spirits or angels of the dark side.. these spirits are invisible yet they can become visible if they want to. why? to scare us. to make us believe that they are who we think they are. these evil spirits are shape shifters. they can look like you, your dead relatives, an animal, they can even go inside your head when you're sleeping - like the dead actually "talking" to us stuff in our dreams. be not afraid of them. they're just there because Satan and his cohorts are out there looking for their prey and to be on their side.
and yes, they are evil, but they can disguise as good spirits - as cunning and sly like the serpent and wolves - wolves in sheep's clothing.

Me neither.

By abstract I mean non-material....and by material I mean anything involving mass and energy (i.e. "natural").

So...I don't know.

I know you weren't. I thought I should post my opinion since I started the thread.

Hmm, yes. Though, does abstract always mean unprovable? Huh. There's a whole different discussion right there.

Shade -

I wasn't really arguing towards you. I didn't expect your beliefs would hinge on butterflies and watermelons. It was directed towards people it applied to, though more than anything, it was justification of my own thoughts

I find it difficult to explain abstract ideas and why I do or do not agree with them, so some fuzziness is unavoidable.

I think I essentially understand your thoughts/beliefs regarding souls. Mutual understanding is really the most we can get from debates over abstract, unprovable ideas anyway.

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To quote Richard Dawkins:
"Let us be open minded, but not so open minded that our brains fall out."

Proof of this is extreme-leaning liberals.

I don't know what to say to you, finn. Why I believe the soul exists has no bearing on my wants or needs. And what I believe about the soul isn't pretty, or sugared, or even desireable in most cases. So... there was no point to my statement.

OG, is the spirit the same as the soul? I've heard a theory that we posess both. The spirit came from the Source ( Your "God" ), and upon dying, that part of life is sent back to the Source, but the soul itself goes elsewhere.

And, no, my question meant exactly what it meant. Do souls exist.

Why would all souls who wander be evil?

man is a living soul. the spirit in us makes man alive. the breath that God gave to man thru our nostrils is the spirit.
so they are different as what is defined in Job 12:9- in whose(God's) hand is the soul of every living thing
in Eccl 12:7 - then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God wbo gave it.
in Heb. 4:12- for the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, ...
they are two different things.
i think your question meant was of the "souls of dead people" or ghosts if they can lead living people about the other side or other information like murders or what ever.
i believe when a man dies, his soul and spirit goes back to the hands of God, not heaven or the paradise as what the Bible or God tells us.
the souls that are here travelling on the earth are the spirits or angels of the Devil trying to divert our attention from God. i've experienced these evil spirits.. while i was sleeping, i felt that a hand hit my leg but when i opened my eyes, there was no one there. and recently when i was sleeping beside my daughter, a hand was tickling my neck, i even shoved it away. (my daughter does this every time to tickle me) but when i awoke her back is turned against me.. so it was not my daughter. but i was not afraid or frightened at all. because i know these evil spirits are jst there to disturb our lives.

I believe so.

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I could argue that the universe is floating in the nose of a cosmic llama and argue that no one can disprove me.

Okay, I must admit I pictured that as I read your post. :P

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To quote Richard Dawkins:
"Let us be open minded, but not so open minded that our brains fall out."

And I liked this quote. I think I will use it one of these days.