This is the first in a three part series of my thoughts on religion. I've been thinking about these things for a long time, and finally decided to share them. None of what follows is proven. It is merely reasoned conjecture on my part. But I hope it gets you thinking.

The Legend of Christ

Two thousand years ago, a man was born in the provice of Judah in the land of Isreal. There was nothing special about this man. He grew up as almost any other person would in that time period, a poor working man oppressed by the Roman soldiers stationed in his homeland. The religion of the time was a heavily orthodox form of Judaism, and all good Jews were expected to follow the 613 mitzvah of the Torah. This man, however, spoke out against such antiquated religous rites. Where the Jews advocated "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth," this man said that we were to "turn the other cheek" and forgive our enemies. What he actually said has been lost in the mists of time, but the gist of it has stayed with us these two thousand years. Eventually, this man was tried by the Jews and executed by the Romans.

That man was Jesus of Nazareth.

But here is where the reality stops and the myth begins. After Jesus' death, the legends about him began to grow. Three hundred years after his death on the Roman crucifix, Jesus was touted as a semi-divine healer and prophet, borne of God to a virgin mother. Many gospels had been written about him, but the ones that depicted him as a mere human were destroyed, and the others were compiled into a collection of works called the New Testament. Jesus, now called Christ, was immortalized as the Son of God and the savior of all humanity. The religion his beliefs spawned has nearly engulfed the world. Wars have been waged in his name. Whole countries have kneeled before the image of his body on the crucifix.

And yet Jesus was never any of that. He was only a man, who was born, lived, and died in Israel two millenia ago.

As I stated above, I have no proof for any of this, save for what I know and have learned of the early history of Christianity. My point here is logic and reason. Two thousand years is a long, long time. It is impossible for the accounts of Jesus' life to be completely accurate. Even the stories told about George Washington, a man who died only two hundred years ago, are partly myth.

I am not trying to undermine any one's religion by posting this. I merely want you all to understand that the supernatural has a habit of being the natural cloaked in legend. Consider that, if you will.

Please move your question to the Mormons thread, and I'll be happy to respond there. This isn't the right thread for that question. I'm not avoiding the question. I'll happily answer, just not in this thread.

What's the whole Nephi thing? I read some of the book of Mormon once and it freaked me out. It was like fullfulling all the bad Bible prophecies. In a bad way, not a good way.

quote:

Originally posted by ampmaster:
If he has anything to do with the mormon belief that Jesus was killed in the US by native Americans you'd be right that I wouldn't trust your source, His name wasn't John by any chance was it?

Nope. Has nothing to do with Natives killing him in the US

If he has anything to do with the mormon belief that Jesus was killed in the US by native Americans you'd be right that I wouldn't trust your source, His name wasn't John by any chance was it?

quote:

Originally posted by ampmaster:

quote:

April 6th to be exact.

don't post absolutes hub know one is quite sure when Jesus was born even the year though tradtion dictates it would be B.C. 33 or so. so if we take his 33 year life as fact we can get a year but a day and month are lost ot the sands of time

Actually, it would be 1 AD, as the number zero did not exist then. Thus he would have died in 34 AD. Anyways, I have my reasons for believing April 6th. Of course, it requires beliefs that you don't have to agree with my source.

quote:

April 6th to be exact.

don't post absolutes hub know one is quite sure when Jesus was born even the year though tradtion dictates it would be B.C. 33 or so. so if we take his 33 year life as fact we can get a year but a day and month are lost ot the sands of time

quote:

Originally posted by reallynow:
I have a question though. Do's anyone really think Christ was born on December 25th? I persoanlly believe that it was sometime in April but that's just me.

April 6th to be exact. Yeah, it was just moved.

quote:

Originally posted by reallynow:
I have a question though. Do's anyone really think Christ was born on December 25th? I persoanlly believe that it was sometime in April but that's just me.

The date of the CELEBRATION of Christ's birth was changed in the third century so that it would fall on Saturnalia, the largest festival of the Roman Calendar. The Romans were really into their holidays, and the early church saw that the church should adapt to the people's little creature comforts in order for them to join the Catholic fold.

I have a question though. Do's anyone really think Christ was born on December 25th? I persoanlly believe that it was sometime in April but that's just me.

quote:

Originally posted by Euterpe:
So..basically..unless someone invents a time machine, neither the Athiest nor the Christian can say he or she is right.

This is why (aside from the obvious) that it'll never happen. Nobody wants to find out their entire system of morals and beliefs is shit.

Well, I can say that I'm right...however, I can't undeniably prove it.

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:

quote:

By the way, I don't see Christ as semi-divine. I see him as divine. Just so you know.

That, quite frankly, is worse. Even Muhammad wasn't billed as divine or semi-divine.

Well, you know, a lot of people believe in the trinity, which puts Christ as our God. Personally, as a Mormon, I simply believe in exaltation, so Christ has been exalted and is a God, though not the God of our world. Now that sounds really twilight zone-ish, but it's complicated, and not the purpose of this thread.

You got it, Euterpe. Science as we know it can't tell us what happened, so each person has to make their own decision. Choose wisely!

So..basically..unless someone invents a time machine, neither the Athiest nor the Christian can say he or she is right.

This is why (aside from the obvious) that it'll never happen. Nobody wants to find out their entire system of morals and beliefs is shit.

God dammit, clpo. Every time you start a thread like this, I can't add anything - because you've covered it all already.

Whoever doesn't know, I was in the same boat clpo was in, being a Christian and all that. Actually, a friend of mine were exploring Christianity together, but we started at opposite ends of the spectrum. My friend studied the Bible to find what was correct, in an effort to boost his faith. I, on the other hand, was more pessimistic and studied to find what was wrong with it, and hopefully boost my faith finding it was true.

In the end we both came to the same conclusion - the same as good clpo here. So all I can really say is that most stuff I already know and agree with, and a small percentage of it I didn't know, and I thank clpo for bringing it to my attention.

It may sound pretty cynical to you, but I lost my faith a long time ago when I learned that Jesus didn't start the Christian faith. Yes, he was a great historical figure. A prophet? Maybe. But he was by no means divine or semi-divine as parts of the Bible would have you believe.

I found out quite by accident that my religion (Christianity) wasn't at all what it seemed. Not only that, but I was peeved at the insistence by certain Christians that Christianity was the only true religion (ever seen a Chick tract?) and the Bible was literal. Now, I know not all Christians are like that, but I don't want to associate myself with anyone who seriously believes that the Earth was created 6000 years ago.

I'm not out to prove Christianity false. But neither am I looking to prove it right. I'm merely here to learn what I can and solve as many mysteries as I can before I die. Besides, there aren't many religions (aside from Satanism) that fit my morals and lifestyle, unless you call relativity a religion.

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:
If I discovered through all my questioning that everything I've been told about religion is true, then that's how it will be. I question because I want to know.

See that's the thing. You won't know. You can't prove everything in the bible false. You have lost sight of its teachings if you want to prove it false in the first place, which it sounds like you want to do. Similarly, you can't prove any other religion true or false. They all can't be right, so you have to follow the one that best fits with your morals and lifestyle. You have to have faith in whatever religion you follow, and if you question god or jesus, then perhaps you have lost faith in them.

If I discovered through all my questioning that everything I've been told about religion is true, then that's how it will be. I question because I want to know.

Jesus was a person. Perhaps you will never know if all that happened was true. And the most likely thing... it wasn't, and i'm christian. But, he had pronound effect on a large group of people and his religion has grown till this day. If you have to question and question until you kill all religion in your life, then go right ahead. But what if it were true? I'm not saying it were but if?

Believe what you want to believe but don't try to destroy other people's beliefs because you have no faith.

quote:

By the way, I don't see Christ as semi-divine. I see him as divine. Just so you know.

That, quite frankly, is worse. Even Muhammad wasn't billed as divine or semi-divine.