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now that is somewat like God, you can't see him, but his creations are his proofs.

Actually, you can see air. Air is composed of certain elements like oxygen and nitrogen which combine to form molecules that make up the air we breathe. While these molecules (like any molecules that make up a gas) are so incredibly small and spaced so far apart that the naked eye cannot see them, they can be viewed through certain types of microscopes. So really, we can see air.

Anyways, the planets, mountains, trees, and such are not necessarily proof of God's existence. We don't know what created those things, so it's flawed logic to jump from the existence of trees to the existence of God. You assume that someone must have created them, and since it wasn't us, it must have been God. But could it be that trees and things were created by random forces of nature and not necessarily an intelligent being? The mere possibility that the creation of trees was an accident precludes them proving that God exists. You need undeniable proof to make that connection. Essentially, Creationism (or any form of it) is just as much a theory as the Big Bang. A different type of theory, to be sure, but still a theory in that it has no solid proof. Yes, we don't know for sure that the universe was created in a cataclysmic explosion, but neither do we know for sure that it was created by some invisible sky wizard.

Besides, who's to say that centuries from now, human knowledge won't advance to the point where we could create trees or planets?

quote:

Originally posted by affanculo:
I know this is late but:
OrangegGodess, you said tat Darwinism and the big bang are stiil theories. Well, gravity is a theory too.

*Drops book fromwindow ledge*

Yep, I think it works....

Snap, I forgot to mention that one. I must be rusty.

I know this is late but:
OrangegGodess, you said tat Darwinism and the big bang are stiil theories. Well, gravity is a theory too.

*Drops book fromwindow ledge*

Yep, I think it works....

quote:

Originally posted by Trisscar:

quote:

It has nothing to do with a divine being. It's just atoms randomly bumping into each other at high speeds, which results in a very hot ball of burning gas. – yes , you just scientifically explained on how a star is born, but those dusts in the space - where did they come from? Atoms made up dust. So where did these atoms come from?

Hehe, I love throwing this one in there...

Where did God come from?

Darn you Triss! You beat me to it!

Oh yeah and um, orange, don't use Santa Clause as a parallel there. How many grown people believe in Santa Clause? Zip.

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It has nothing to do with a divine being. It's just atoms randomly bumping into each other at high speeds, which results in a very hot ball of burning gas. – yes , you just scientifically explained on how a star is born, but those dusts in the space - where did they come from? Atoms made up dust. So where did these atoms come from?

Hehe, I love throwing this one in there...

Where did God come from?

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uh, why should that Someone turn fish into a land dwelling mammal in the first place?

Why should someone turn water into wine? So that people can get drunk? Very moral.

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Theories have no conclusions. Darwin’s theory still have the “missing link”, although it has been accepted worldwide - it doesn’t mean it is true. Santa Claus is accepted worldwide to be bringing toys to good children during Christmas eve, but has anybody really seen him? we were all just brainwashed that he is jolly old man wearing red suit with white beard and with reindeers carrying toys all over the world who lives in the North Pole.

Baaaaad Metaphor.

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Santa Claus is accepted worldwide to be bringing toys to good children during Christmas eve, but has anybody really seen him? we were all just brainwashed that he is jolly old man wearing red suit with white beard and with reindeers carrying toys all over the world who lives in the North Pole.

WTF? I laughed for ten minutes when I read this! since when do people believe that SC really exists and lives in the NP and all that other stuff you said??it's sound to me like you've been brainwashed darling. Seriously.

If he can't turn a fish into a land dwelling mammal, then why should I believe he can do everything else everyone claims he can do? -- uh, why should that Someone turn fish into a land dwelling mammal in the first place? For wat? for fun? For Magic? Magic is not of God, by the way. That Someone created fish to be aquatic, period. Then I guess you’re dreaming to be like Aquaman, or you would like to fly like Superman? If fish were to be on land, it wouldn’t be as tasty as they should be, coz they feed on tiny animals that are only living on the ocean or lake. They were made to be that way. Humans are made to be more intelligent than animals, then again, I guess you wanna have the night vision of the owls, or the characteristic of a chimp?

scientists can grow skin, hair, teeth, organs, etc. – Yes, they can grow organs using DNA or out of a sample of tissue. But man cannot create – meaning, making something out of nothing – skin, hair, teeth, etc.

It has nothing to do with a divine being. It's just atoms randomly bumping into each other at high speeds, which results in a very hot ball of burning gas. – yes , you just scientifically explained on how a star is born, but those dusts in the space - where did they come from? Atoms made up dust. So where did these atoms come from?

Theories have no conclusions. Darwin’s theory still have the “missing link”, although it has been accepted worldwide - it doesn’t mean it is true. Santa Claus is accepted worldwide to be bringing toys to good children during Christmas eve, but has anybody really seen him? we were all just brainwashed that he is jolly old man wearing red suit with white beard and with reindeers carrying toys all over the world who lives in the North Pole.

Triss, men are born good- meaning a baby is borne good. Babies who are surrounded by drunkards most probably will grow up to be a drunkard too. But a baby who is secluded in the woods, raised up only with his parents who are of good character, would surely acquire good traits. Men who don’t know God (meaning fully understanding him or know him 100%) like the Mongoloids, the retards, or babies who have mental defects, people who didn’t have the chance to know God like those in the mountains or other secluded areas like the North Pole, people living in the desert, or the forests and the like are exceptions from the fucked up thing or damnation. He is a God of Justice. He won’t judge when a person doesn’t really know him. It’s like comparing a new-found friend versus your best friend, how can you judge someone’s character without knowing him fully, right?

Since you were once a “believer” of God before, maybe that person who introduced God to you didn’t introduced Him fully as what you ought to know of Him (meaning His character, his personality, his likes and dislikes and his power, his mercy). Eve’s original sin – which is disobeying - is not and will not pass on to babies or to us as what the Catholic priests are trying to brainwash us just so babies have to baptized Babies are innocent creatures. Baptism is for people who have fully accepted Jesus Christ as God’s only begotten Son and through baptism is for washing of sins. A baby hasn’t done anything yet. A babe doesn’t even know what is right or wrong so why should he be baptized? It’s a business tactic. If you were a loving mother would you like your leave your sins and debts to your child? Of course not, no sensible parent would do such thing.
If they (pastors) say ‘Just Believe on Christ” and you’re saved! What does believing really mean? Firstly, You have to know everything about God then second is to believe then lastly faith. So what do you actually believe about God (before)?

Well, EG pretty much said what I was going to say... I would just like to add (warning: orange has hit on one of my pet peeves) that the "theory" of evolution and the "theory" of the Big Bang are SCIENTIFIC THEORIES. It annoys me to no end when people say "they're just theories." Sorry but you don't understand what the hell a scientific theory is. It means something that has been tested by many people and that has gained widespread acceptance in the scientific community, among other things. Theories will always be "just theories" because with science, unlike with religion, we don't claim to have a monopoly on the truth and we leave things open for further discussion.

Yeah, so, please don't say they're "just theories." Religion could hope to one day be "just a theory."

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who on earth is wise enought to make a star? or make your hair? no man has ever made a tree.. humans can make a chair or table out of a tree but can anyone of us make a tree? or a mountain? Nature is from God, Science if from God.

No one on Earth can make a star, or a tree. Although, scientists can grow skin, hair, teeth, organs, etc.

Your God probably did create nature, but stars are created by gravity, centrifical force, friction, and some other crap I can't remember. It has nothing to do with a divine being. It's just atoms randomly bumping into each other at high speeds, which results in a very hot ball of burning gas.

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the big bang theory, the darwin theory that man came from ape stuff... these are still theories.

Even if they are theories, you admitted that God created Science. I don't understand why he can't be responsible for Evolution or the Big Bang. He's supposed to be a super-powerful being, yet making a fish grow legs is impossible for him? That is exactly why I don't believe there is a God. If he can't turn a fish into a land dwelling mammal, then why should I believe he can do everything else everyone claims he can do? That just makes no sense whatsoever to me.

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i believe that all men are good, it's just the influence around us that is corrupting us.

Whoa... you're contradicting yourself here. Earlier you stated (I'm paraphrasing) That good or evil we're all fucked because of Eve's original sin. So according to what you stated earlier, its not our circumstances that make us evil, we're born that way.

ok, ill leave the bible out of this discussion or debate or argument. but first of all,i just wanna apologize if most of you are offended.. i really cant explain how i feel but il try anyways, its like i, or you know the feeling that if you really believe in something that other pple dont know about , you wanna shout on top of the world? maybe that's it. i was being aggressive.. sorry. but anyways, the god of this world is satan not the God we know who is the Creator if i may elaborate.

ok now my explanation on the proof of existence of God(laying aside the Bible) is like this. who on earth is wise enought to make a star? or make your hair? no man has ever made a tree.. humans can make a chair or table out of a tree but can anyone of us make a tree? or a mountain? Nature is from God, Science if from God. the big bang theory, the darwin theory that man came from ape stuff... these are still theories. none of them has been proven yet. can anyone make a planet. someone who is far more intelligent than us human must have? and how good of that being to make us live on earth? y not the moon or jupiter or saturn or even pluto? yes, the unexplainable is God.
if you wanna see human history, in Roman history, Jesus Christ was a part of their history.
i believe that all men are good, it's just the influence around us that is corrupting us.
if to see is to believe is what we are looking here.. then, can we see air that we breathe? or even our mind or thoughts that taking shape in our head? you can't literally see your thoughts, unless they are act on it to materialize. like for example you have an "idea" on your head on how your dream house would look like, but first you have to write it down to materialize and built on the "plan and idea". now that is somewat like God, you can't see him, but his creations are his proofs.

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well, thank you, yes ive been fucking brainwashed by the Bible if I may say. =)

As other people kindly pointed out, being brainwashed usually isn't something someone accepts and is not considered as a good thing but whatever.

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And if you don’t believe the Bible, my answer would be pointless to you or to anybody.

Finally! You seem to have understood. You can't say you KNOW your religion is the right one and your path is the right one and even that you KNOW God exists because you have no real proof for any of these things.


Orangegoddess, since there is no way you can prove God exists (or anything you are saying about the right path and so on) you need to stop discriminating against people who have other belief systems, you believe whatever the hell you want but let others be and cut the crap about how you are right and everyone else on the planet is wrong, seriously, people will take your views more seriously if you stop acting so high and mighty about everything you say, especially given the fact that you can't provide any proof for it(other than the Bible and I think our fellow "youthnoise people" already explained to you how that isn't exactly the proof we're talking about).

Clpo, I think you already know what my views are on this whole thing so, if you don't mind, I'm going to just respond to what everyone else has posted.

Orange, the rest of this is basically for you. But may I point out that being brainwashed is not a good thing?

The whole point of what we're getting at is that there's no proof other than the Bible, which isn't near proof enough. If you took the Bible, which after all is just a single book, away would you have any way of proving what you believe?

Also, what proof do you have that the people who wrote the Bible were so special? Wait, lemme guess, the Bible says so. Does that seem at all circular to you?

A cult is, basically, a religion without enough people. For anyone who was wondering...

quote:

1st,What kind of proof do you want? You want to see the real physical being of God is that it? To see is to believe kinda thing? Look at the world around you, this is God’s creation and the god of this world fighting.

I was thinking something along the lines of undeniable proof. The world is not proof because the world could have been created by the forces of nature with no supernatural intervention. The mere possibility of that precludes it being proof of anything.

The simple fact is that there is no proof that God exists or that Christianity is the right religion. It's the kind of thing that simply can't be proven. But since I'm the kind of guy who requires proof, I just can't accept anything that relies solely on faith.

*sigh*

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has been totally confused by her posts

*Chokes with laughter, saying with difficulty...*

What the hell did that mean? Orange appeared to be happy that she was brainwashed. Then she tried to explain why the Bible was a good thing, and ended up contradicting her own metaphor.

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God’s creation and the god of this world fighting.

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Different religion seeking financial assistance from a totally different group – this is not wat Jesus Christ taught the apostles or wat is handed down for modern people.

What does this mean?

for maya:it sounds like you've been fucking brainwashed - well, thank you, yes ive been fucking brainwashed by the Bible if I may say. =)

What makes other religions fake and yours the real thing if I may ask? Other than the fact the you think it's so? Coz Jesus told us so, don’t you read the Bible? And if you don’t believe the Bible, my answer would be pointless to you or to anybody. the bible is written of course by human but humans that are special and close to God. He used them to write his thoughts and his warnings. Lets just make it easy. An old man who is of old age and blurred vision and poor penmanship would ask his son who is able and strong to write down the thoughts of his father. But of course God is not old. The Bible is intended for man to read so for other generations to understand, it would take a fellow human being who is writing human language to communicate with future human. Um,Gets?

so how dare you declare you know what they are?!- did I declare anything? The Bible did, not me. I just posted it. If you want verses id post it, but maybe you really don’t believe in anything that is invisible. So what are you breathing, can you see air?

The Bible was written by PEOPLE, not GOD. – yes of course. I agree with that. But it is God inspired. It is written by people chosen to be used by God. The key word is chosen people. Not just ordinary men, not like King Herod, Pontius Pilate, I think you know what I mean.

The Bible, to my understanding, has been interpretated in many different ways, why is yours the correct one? - uh, mine? Correction not mine interpretation. Interpretation and analogy are two different things. Careful analysis is needed in studying the Bible.


for triss:
Wat does cult mean? Where did the word originated? Cult also means a religious group,but unfortunately, the word “cult” is often used to connote negativity or with Satan’s or without basis.

According to the Bible nobody is suppose to stand in your way when understanding God. – what verse would that be?
Anyways, here’s an analogy.let’s say God is like the White house. You wanna go to White House but you don’t know how to.. now,there are people who know the directions on how to get to there Then of course, you ask for directions The people you’ve asked are just guiding you or pointing you the direction on where you should be heading – tour guides. They are guides not leaders.


for clpo13:
You could tell me what you think the truth is until the sun goes nova and I won't believe you unless you've got some proof.
1st,What kind of proof do you want? You want to see the real physical being of God is that it? To see is to believe kinda thing? Look at the world around you, this is God’s creation and the god of this world fighting.

but almost all of the religious groups that i;ve attended before have envelopes like the Born Agains and the Catholics wherein the donation bag is being passed or collected by the "usher' or watever you call them.


I think those are more to support upkeep of the church buildings more than anything. Although I do suppose certain denominations of Christianity will tell you it's your duty.

I mean for example a Born Again Group asking for donations from Catholics. Different religion seeking financial assistance from a totally different group – this is not wat Jesus Christ taught the apostles or wat is handed down for modern people. Well if you believe in Jesus. But then, what’s the point with arguing on something, when the other party is not of the same frequency.

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but not anybody will be able to understand.. its not a simple storybook i tell ya.. you must be guided by one person who knows how to analyze the Super Book.

THIS here is a sign that you are in a cult. Sorry orangegoddesse but this point right here, the fact that you must be "guided" to know what the Bible has to say is what your problem is.

According to the Bible nobody is suppose to stand in your way when understanding God. Having a go-to person to tell you what he's saying isn't right. This is the reason the Vale/curten thing was ripped in two when Jesus died, to prove that we no longer need a priest to communicate and understand God through. Jesus was concidered our High priest, you talk to him, he suppose to talk to God.