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Registered: May 03, 2003
Posts: 8900
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quote: Most Christians wont tell you you are going to hell (even though you are) but we try to save those who dont believe.
Am I the only one who saw the irony in that?
I like these calm little moments before the storm.
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Registered: March 10, 2005
Posts: 745
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quote: Originally posted by finn620:
I personally think that humanity is worthless, not part of a grand scheme, that souls don't exist, that "free will" is just an illusion, that there is nothing after you die, that reality itself makes absolutly no sense at all, and that life has no point. And I have spent days at a time thinking that nothing exists and that I have no reason to live, but that it doesn't matter because if there is no reality, what would I care...but nonetheless, I think the suicide rate doesn't mean jack. You could go and calculate sucicide rates for religions, sexes, races, sexual orientations, places of origin, ect. For each category you pick, one group logically has to have the highest amount, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything. It could just mean that a large amount of sucicides were randomly atheist.
FML-
If atheists really are more likely to kill themselves, what's it to you? It is true that thinking can make you depressed, cynical, mentally unstable, and a number of other things, some linked to sucide, some not. The only points you're going to end up making are
1. That deists don't think much
2. That (if you are) mentally stable, it's because you're safe inside the padded walls of you're thick skull
or
3. Atheists tend to be depressed because people like yourself constantly bash us (I have to deal with it all the time, and as much as I love irony of being damned to hell for not believing in hell, the humor wears off).
Okay first off, I am so sorry you feel that life is worthless. However, you are totally wrong about Christians bashing atheists. If you havent read a lot of the other posts on here, Christians are constantly told that the Bible is a fantasy book, God doesnt exist, and we are gulible for thinking such things. So actually, we are being bashed for actually believing, not the other way around. Most Christians wont tell you you are going to hell (even though you are) but we try to save those who dont believe.
"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." - James Madison
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Registered: October 18, 2004
Posts: 726
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quote: Originally posted by finn620:
By the way, as religion tends to develop as a way for humans to comfort themselves so they don't have to think about life, your data (if real) would indicate that religious people are mentally unstable and require their belief systems for consolation.
That sounds more like the reason for being an atheist . Hey how about this have you ever heard of something called dialectical materialism . You should read about it .
I'll sleep when im dead .
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Registered: October 17, 2003
Posts: 4596
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There is a difference between depressed, insane and mental instability. Atheism isn't a religion, either. The definition of Atheism is no religion. Get your facts straight. -Sunset 
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Registered: December 15, 2004
Posts: 12
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I absolutely think this is a generalization. First of all, I'd like to say that my father was part of your statistic. He was an atheist who committed suicide, but I do not believe that this suicide sprung from his religious beliefs. He grew up a practicing Catholic and abandoned his faith when he went to college. This is a perfectly legitimate choice. He lived his life as an atheist, and ended it very abruptly. This is a terrible thing, but I find it completely disgusting that anyone would even begin to link suicide to religious beliefs. Simply because more atheists have committed suicide than other religious groups does not indicate a flaw in the faith. It is simply a coincidence. Atheists choose their beliefs just the same as other religious people do. I do not think you can make these generalizations about people who commit suicide. While I do not find suicide a solution or a good thing in any way, there is always a reason. And for every person who feels the need to do it, the reason is personally different. You cannot generalize about people who commit suicide. It is simply impossible. I'm personally horrified and insulted that this post was even put up.
"Nothing takes the taste out of peanut butter quite like unrequited love."
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Registered: June 14, 2004
Posts: 2721
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That's not generalization. I said that the goth kids at my school---in other words, the ones I see every day and talk to---are usually Atheist. Few of them are anything else. And, yeah, I guess some goths do believe in Wiccan but I think there's only like one at my school that I know of....so I didn't know. I said before I told ya'll all of that that it "At least where I live." So that is how it is where I live---that's not generalizing. I know that's not how it is everywhere. And what to do you want me to call Atheism? Religion is the closest thing I could come up with. Do you want me to say belief system? Just tell me. You didn't have to jump down my throat about it. And I noticed that none of you said I was wrong about anything I said that was actually about the topic.
Belief makes things real/Makes things feel, feel alright/Belief makes things true/Things like you, you and I
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Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 5959
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There is no correlation between atheists and increased suicide rates. It just seems that way because atheists have no "god" to fall back on in hard times. But other religions have people who kill themselves. Suicide is just a way to end it all, so it's not essentially religion-related. Most Christians who kill themselves do it because they say God has deserted them. It's all in their mind whatever the case. They only think they can't stand the pressure. So they give up. Surrender. And for that they are weak.
The more you know, the less you don't know.
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Registered: January 28, 2005
Posts: 73
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quote: Again, not all Christians are sheltered. Just because we have a religion doesn't mean we don't live in the real world. How about you stop generalizing Christians? I don't generalize Atheists...or anyone for that matter.
That being said: At least where I live Atheism is closely related to being "goth" and "depressed." Those people who say they hate the world so they try everything in their power to be different---including not believing in God---but are essentially just like everyone else who try to be someone they're not. And, for some reason, this trend as led to suicide being trendy. Isn't that weird? Death as a trend. So now, when people are telling me their life story (it happens a lot), they often throw in stuff like, "And, yeah, I, like, tried to commit suicide because life just sucked." And most of the time they're just saying ti for attention.
People who are actually Atheist and don't just say they are for attention aren't necessarily more depressed or commit sucide more than any other religious group. It's true that they don't have something like faith in God to fall back on but they do have other aspects of life (which, I might add, Christians utilize as well...most Christians don't operate on just blind faith).
So I think the connection is more because of this then something like Atheists are more depressed or something. That's just like saying Christians are more sheltered---it's just not true. I don't think your religion makes your personality so much different that you do something as rash as commit suicide.
well, that sounds like a whole heck of a lot of generalizing right there! quote: it's more like calling bald a hair style
couldnt agree with you more.
Why do I have a conciense, all it does is **** with me?
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Registered: January 16, 2004
Posts: 3993
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Actually, it's more like calling bald a hair style. No hair as a style, no God as a belief system.
L'enfer, c'est les autres. -Jean-Paul Sartre
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Registered: March 09, 2004
Posts: 2913
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Actually goth believe in wiccan, and to call atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.
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Registered: June 14, 2004
Posts: 2721
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quote: Just goes to show how sheltered christians are.
Again, not all Christians are sheltered. Just because we have a religion doesn't mean we don't live in the real world. How about you stop generalizing Christians? I don't generalize Atheists...or anyone for that matter. That being said: At least where I live Atheism is closely related to being "goth" and "depressed." Those people who say they hate the world so they try everything in their power to be different---including not believing in God---but are essentially just like everyone else who try to be someone they're not. And, for some reason, this trend as led to suicide being trendy. Isn't that weird? Death as a trend. So now, when people are telling me their life story (it happens a lot), they often throw in stuff like, "And, yeah, I, like, tried to commit suicide because life just sucked." And most of the time they're just saying ti for attention. People who are actually Atheist and don't just say they are for attention aren't necessarily more depressed or commit sucide more than any other religious group. It's true that they don't have something like faith in God to fall back on but they do have other aspects of life (which, I might add, Christians utilize as well...most Christians don't operate on just blind faith). So I think the connection is more because of this then something like Atheists are more depressed or something. That's just like saying Christians are more sheltered---it's just not true. I don't think your religion makes your personality so much different that you do something as rash as commit suicide.
Belief makes things real/Makes things feel, feel alright/Belief makes things true/Things like you, you and I
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Registered: December 14, 2004
Posts: 5767
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What about all ove those fanatical religious groups that committed suicide a few years ago? What about the religious people who refuse to give newborns medical treatment? What about the members of religious sects who brutally torture themselves? These groups lead me to believe that the members are insane. Anyways, FML, what is with the atheist bashing? Is this the coalition's new goal to rid YN of atheists? Personally, I'm insulted that you are suggesting that I am insane. You, as an intelligent person, ought to be accepting of the beliefs of others. Just accept the beliefs, don't try to account for them with some weird theory.
They'll like us when we win - Toby Ziegler.
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Registered: January 16, 2004
Posts: 3993
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By the way, as religion tends to develop as a way for humans to comfort themselves so they don't have to think about life, your data (if real) would indicate that religious people are mentally unstable and require their belief systems for consolation.
L'enfer, c'est les autres. -Jean-Paul Sartre
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Registered: January 16, 2004
Posts: 3993
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I personally think that humanity is worthless, not part of a grand scheme, that souls don't exist, that "free will" is just an illusion, that there is nothing after you die, that reality itself makes absolutly no sense at all, and that life has no point. And I have spent days at a time thinking that nothing exists and that I have no reason to live, but that it doesn't matter because if there is no reality, what would I care...but nonetheless, I think the suicide rate doesn't mean jack. You could go and calculate sucicide rates for religions, sexes, races, sexual orientations, places of origin, ect. For each category you pick, one group logically has to have the highest amount, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything. It could just mean that a large amount of sucicides were randomly atheist. FML- If atheists really are more likely to kill themselves, what's it to you? It is true that thinking can make you depressed, cynical, mentally unstable, and a number of other things, some linked to sucide, some not. The only points you're going to end up making are 1. That deists don't think much 2. That (if you are) mentally stable, it's because you're safe inside the padded walls of you're thick skull or 3. Atheists tend to be depressed because people like yourself constantly bash us (I have to deal with it all the time, and as much as I love irony of being damned to hell for not believing in hell, the humor wears off).
L'enfer, c'est les autres. -Jean-Paul Sartre
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Registered: January 28, 2005
Posts: 73
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Well to be blunt im atheist. To be blunt im certainly not insane. Jenos was right when she said there isnt an instant connection to suicide and mental instability, most people just jump to that conclusion. Again, to be blunt, i dont see a reason to live. I have a thread about that in a different section (teens:health). But its probably true that i wouldnt have the same philosophy if i beilived in some god or religion. These other religions really do explain off the questions i have, but the answers they come up with sometimes dont even make sense or are just made up, it would make more sense if you read my other thread.
Why do I have a conciense, all it does is **** with me?
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Registered: March 09, 2004
Posts: 2913
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I don't doubt the suicide rates are higher. It all started 100 years ago when psychology was invented. When people had problems theyd pray. Now they go talk to a doctor who isolates the problems tells you whats really wrong etc. People are just smarter now, thats all. Kids don't commit suicide because they live in a fairy tale world, sorta like christians.
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Registered: October 06, 2004
Posts: 3372
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don't worry fml, I plan to live for a loooooooooooooooooooooong time yet.
O of where dost thou hail, Celephanil, Celephanil? Why dost thou wander in Tengelwar great, why on the sea do you sail?
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Registered: March 08, 2004
Posts: 1681
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I don't doubt this is true, nor do I doubt it's irrelevant. If your religious faith is strong enough to pull you through the rough times, good for you, you've utilized one of the many positive aspects of religion. But faith is far from the only reason to live people with deep depression might fall back on. Others include the fine arts, comedy, friends, family, etc. Besides, if you don't believe in God to begin with, you're not suddenly going to when you find yourself depressed. As for mental instability, I've always believed freethinkers do tend to suffer from it more. Thinking is dangerous, but that's no excuse not to do it.
And then, as the books were told, Fina replied: "A can of worms, my dear friend? What has this to do with reason?"
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Registered: June 06, 2004
Posts: 3373
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quote: some of the most brilliant people in the world were deamed insane.
Some of them were. Many of the most intelligent people to ever live were murderous recluses. My Psychology Prof. gave us the Atheism/suicide rate in class, it's also in my psych book but I'll try to find an internet source to quote. Honorablecoalition.tripod.com Whereas;This message has hereby been proudly deemed racism and bigotry free by the Great and Honorable Coalition Against Racism. MMIV - Youthnoise's First Coalition.
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Registered: March 09, 2004
Posts: 2913
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non atheists are the ones who like to stay in the lines. Atheists are those ones who like to cross that line and explore. I think we just like to understand the world more. BTW some of the most brilliant people in the world were deamed insane. Just goes to show how sheltered christians are. do you have a source?
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