Alright, I have a friend who is dating a boy in my school right now. The boy is very nice and is actually becoming a good friend of mine. The friend who is dating him is one of my closest and best friends. She is pretty liberal, as am I, but since May she has been hanging around what I like to call paleo-conservative christians. These people usually are face of the 'unaccepting christian' community. Anywho, after a harsh break up last year, my friend decided that she was going to law low and take a break from dating. Then she met this boy (who she is dating now).

When she told her conservative christian friends that she liked this guy, they kind of freaked out. She is now kind of under their constant supervision and they even told her that dating in high school wasn't part of "God's plan" for her. This presents a question for all of you: do you think that anyone can tell you what god's plan is for someone else?

In my opinion, no, but I have a lot of different views on religion. Go ahead and sound off!

11th centuray preist also said this to their followers who happened to be pissing them off. Look where that got them. God has a plan ..... sure okay i'm willing to swallow that but when a mortal claims that he or she knows God's plan for you its just another form of control. Not cool. What did God fax these people this girls life story? I don't think so ..... besides God doesn't talk much. Using God's authority to fullfill your own needs is silly,stupid, and dangerous

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that dating in high school wasn't part of "God's plan"

OMG

My girlfriend was told this by her mom!!! I hate that. My girl and I are still together but we have alot of restrictions. Any way, NO I do not think that any one should dump their belifes on you. Expecially in school. It is our time to "learn". So teachers say..........

People who don't date generally have a harder time getting married. Why? Because they don't know how to date.

Duh.

I have been dating "said girl" for 3 weeks now despite the wishes of these paleo-conservative christians. This dating intervention group has affected "said girl" much more than they have affected me. Partly because I do not know them and before "said girl" and I started dating I had never talked to them. This has me wondering how they can have anything against me. At one point, in a round-about way, they even called me Satan. This pissed me off.
They gave "said girl" a book called "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" by Joshua Harris. She wanted no part of this book so I started reading it. The book gives numerous examples of failed highschool relationships but who is to say that ours can't work out. Also, the book stresses that you should not date until you are ready to get married. However, the question of how you are supposed to know who you should marry without dating is brought up many times. I don't feel that Joshua Harris legitimately answers this question. I think dating is a good thing, and I am thoroughly enjoying my relationship with "said girl".
The dating intervention made no effort in trying to get to know me until we hung out with Eric, which was cool. But parts of the dating intervention has made no effort AT ALL and I do not see how they can judge me without knowing me. I think they should fix their problems before trying to play god and mess with other peoples lives.

Y'all know each other...

Anyways, no. Only God has the right to tell anyone what the plan for their life is, otherwise, they should get the fuck out of other people's lives and worry about their own.

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I have nothing against this boy and really enjoyed hanging out with just the two of them.

It really seems like you do have something against this boy. From what I've read and what I have heard, you make him sound like the devil or some satanic being. Said boyfriend is awesome. He is super cool. But anywho...

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I acted poorly

I agree.

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I do not think that their decision to date it wrong either.

Same thing as before, it sure seems like it.

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I am attempting to live in a way that has resposibility to my friends (I hope to count them both as such) and not to their relationship.

How is discouraging dating a boy (who is a 'good boy' mind you, because some of the intervention type things you guys did might be necessary for certain boys that would truly be detrimental to someone (drug user, criminal, etc.)) whom you didn't know at the time, responsible to your friend/friendship? That really doesn't make sense to me. As you might have read in my last post, I didn't necessarily like the seeming 'effect' that you guys had on said girl when she started to hang out with you more, but as a friend, I felt it was my responsibility to accept her for whatever she was and what she wanted to do. She wasn't doing anything detrimental to her well-being or her spiritual life, etc. (You may say that hanging out with me is detrimental to her spiritual life, but she is a big girl and can decide for herself...).

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I'll be the first to say that the singing and acting and other various theatrical elements of the film were very excellent.

I agree with you completely! It was very well performed from a technical standpoint!

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What I saw was a production that was based on no real truth (beyond that the situations actually happen to real ppl) but I found it sad because the main message was to comprimise and wasn't based on any solid principles. it was dirven by anarchy and half truths.

What do you mean by no real truth? I'm sorry that all you got from it was to comprimise and that it wasn't based on any solid principles. It is based on principles, maybe not all the principles that you agree with, but it is based on principles. As for to compromise, much of the message was to live for the moment and to live your life to the fullest. Just because there were drug users in the movie, didn't condone that you should use drugs: because one of the guys was an ex-junkie and discouraged drug use. And I thought it accurately portrayed reasons not to use drugs. So, it was saying: "don't do drugs." Check. Now, if you are talking about the homosexuality part, well that is completely based on principle. The principle that people are people and that they will be people no matter how you alienate them. Let me quote bits of a song for you: "To faggots, lezzies, dykes, crossdressers, too... To people living with..not dying from disease. Let he among us without sin, be the first to condemn! . It was saying if you call their lifestyles or their choices or things beyond their control (sexuality) a sin, then let god deal with it and but out because nobody's perfect... But anywho, that's just my interpretation of the movie is. Oh, it also teaches not to judge and it accurately portrays the fear and trials that people with AIDS go through. (By the way, it is World AIDS Day today! This year's theme is "accountability" Such as: the governments need to be accountable to their pledges to end AIDS or be accountalbe to their donations to the AIDS fund.)

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failed to see that they couldn't endorse the movie and still follow the bible.

I think that they could endorse the movie and still follow the bible. I was talking with some people who worked at the movie theater and we came to an agreement: you have to just forget about your morals and whatnot when you go into a movie, otherwise you will judge the hell out of it and you will hate it (if it disagrees with your values) and you didn't benefit from going to the movie at all... I am proud of you though, you sat through most of it (save for the time you went to the bathroom) other people who think along the same lines as you walked out before it was over and didn't give it a fair and valid chance... So, props to you.

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I don't want to refuse to listen to something that might be true.

But it seems so much that you are so stuck with an idea (religion) that you refuse to even consider something different. It shows people that you aren't firm in your faith because you can't allow your mind to open up enough to give another idea a chance or really look at it and give it merit. You might study some other religions, but you go into it thinking you're right in your thinking now and so you just look at other things to learn simply what they are and how they contradict your religion, so you can use it as fuel to generate more hate... Sorry if that's harsh, but that's how I (as well as many others) perceive you and others with similar views...

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but I vaue truth highly and let that alone govern my life.

Another subject entirely, and I don't necessarily want to discuss here on this board, but how do you even know what truth is??

Have a nice day and good weekend!

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but she expressed to me that she thought that she wasn't supposed to date in high school, i never brought it up, but she either changed as school went on or she was just puttin on a face to me during the summer.

I don't believe that she was putting on a face to you, I think that's how she really felt at the time, but then she changed because when she felt that way, I assume, she was still reveling in the pain from her last dating experience. I think, and I think she thinks similarly now, that dating is valuable (not necessary) but a valuable part of getting to know yourself as well as others. I go out on dates with TONS of people, we don't call them 'dates' we call it 'hanging out' but I have learned so much about myself and I have learned so much about others and it has made me a better person. Whereas if I didn't have that experience, I would be socially vulnerable in college, as I see many people who don't know themselves in high school. But that's a different story...

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i mean i cannot inspire her to pursue Christ and His love for her or anything else that i have found to have any meaning in life

I don't think you should or need to. There was a time when said girl associated herself with atheism or at least searching for something other than what's been shoved down her throat her whole life to find what she believes. This just my opinion, but I have a problem with you trying to 'inspire' people to believe what you believe because although I try to persuade people politically and I try to persuade people on their thought process, I don't guilt people into by questioning their faith and whatnot. Especially said girl, but others as well, are big and grown up and can figure out what they believe for themselves and don't need people telling them how to think (religiously and such).

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i screwed that up when this whole dating thing came up, i handled it wrong

I agree.

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i saw her beauty, beauty of her heart this summer, and i also saw pain.

Other people see that as well, but, if I may quote something (not quite sure where this is from), but it is better to have loved and lost, than ever to have loved at all. We only have one life, and if going to not go outside because there's a chance it might rain and we'll get wet, then we will never go outside. (Metaphor, of course), but it's so true, if we are never going to do things because there is a chance of getting hurt, we might as well not do anything at all.

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i have successfully taken myself out of any position to know her deeper and do what i can to bring healing in her life and heart. that is how i screwed up. it was never about "dating" it was about her heart. like i said in another post, i am very unlike Christ in that i'm not good at truely loving others regardless of who they are or what they are doing......

I think that if you really want to be back in her life, you can be, you just need to stop telling her how to live it, and how to be a good christian or how to be a good person! I consider myself very intellectual (looking at many sides of an argument before choosing a side, questioning things, thirsting for education, etc.) and I look up to said girl because she makes me think and she challenges me and she on my level, if not above me, and I can talk to her openly about anything. We disagree sometimes, we agree sometimes, but the difference between me and you is that I do not judge her when she says something that I do not like or that conflicts with what I think. I do not call her a 'bad liberal' or such things like that. So, to put it simply, you still have potential to be friends with her, just don't try to change her or influence her.

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nick, i still would like to have that discussion you once talked about on here. and i do mean discussion, i have learned arguing gets no where, and seems to only would relationships, and i simply want to build them.

I'm glad you have learned the difference between discussions and arguments. If you really want a discussion, come up to me in school and we might be able to schedule something, but it seems like you are semi-interested to meet with me, but not interested enough to be persistant with it. You've only approached me once at school about it and that was prompted by a stupid online conversation with another person...

But in closing to what you said in your post: I think said girl is happy with parts of her life now, and it is really an insulting thing to do to her to go up and say that she isn't living up to her religion or not living up to god and things like that. Personally I think that in some things you are wrong, I just disagree with what you say, so when it seemed like you guys 'abducted' her and she seemed to change a lot, I felt similar to what you are probably feeling now, but the thing is: I didn't judge her because of it, and I didn't tell her that anything she was doing in her life was wrong or bad... that's about all I have to say about that...

well, baber chimed in so I figured I would too. I am super conservative friend #2. unlike baber I feel I know said girl better than most. we seemed to share a common thought process and it was relatively easy to communicate with her. By saying this I'm not trying to minimize the seperation tht nick was talking about, and yes it was ushered in by a decision to date this boy. I want to state my heart though, at the peak of the stress I acted poorly by becoming worried too much for her. I have nothing against this boy and really enjoyed hanging out with just the two of them. I do not think that their decision to date it wrong either. I am attempting to live in a way that has resposibility to my friends (I hope to count them both as such) and not to their relationship. I am trying to love them both the best I can.
I'de also like to say that I'm the freind who went to RENT. I'll be the first to say that the singing and acting and other various theatrical elements of the film were very excellent. by asking "which part" I was thinking that I don't want to com off as the close-minded, hating-everything-lovely type critic but I felt responsibility to communicate what I observed. What I saw was a production that was based on no real truth (beyond that the situations actually happen to real ppl) but I found it sad because the main message was to comprimise and wasn't based on any solid principles. it was dirven by anarchy and half truths. I was slightly hesitant to speak because I knew that several of the ppl ther watching at the same time professed to believe the bible and failed to see that they couldn't endorse the movie and still follow the bible. idk I want to have good relationships with this girl and this guy, as well as the ppl who I watched the movie with. I don't want to refuse to listen to something that might be true. but I vaue truth highly and let that alone govern my life.

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We don't have to go out and date this person and that person to findout if we really want to be with them the rest of our lives.

And that's why so many people do it anyways...

I mean, really, in this day and age have you heard of any married couple that didn't date for at least a little bit no matter how religious?

Also, my boyfriend and I are going to marry each other in the future. But had I not dated him, I would have never known that I could feel this way about him - he's not really my type. However, I started dating him and now I love him with all my heart and I know I could spend my life with him.

So, you're delusional. If you're going to wait for someone to just fall into your lap because of God then you're wrong. God wants us to work for what we want - and, no, it's not going to work out if He doesn't want it as well but it will work out if He does. Doesn't mean we don't have to figure out what works and doesn't for ourselves. That's crap.

And dating is fun. Prude.

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We don't have to go out and date this person and that person to findout if we really want to be with them the rest of our lives.

What a coincidence. My mother sat me on her lap and told me the same thing when I was really young, when I asked how she and my dad met. Then my dad beat the shit out of her a few years later.

Praise God.

What really gets me is when people tell you what God's plan is for you when you simply don't care.

Since I consider religion to be completely personal, I see "advising" other people about their religion as wrong. Religion is the individual's business and their's alone. How they choose to go about worshipping whatever god it is they worship is no one elses' business.

Of course, I'm a privacy freak, so I may be a little biased.

I believe that people can tell you or rather advise you to what He wants in your life and wants you to do.
That's what I think

In my own opinion I don't think that people should "date". The way that I believe is that God send someone for you oneday.
We don't have to go out and date this person and that person to findout if we really want to be with them the rest of our lives.
When it's your time God will send the right one along and you will know.

Nick, you know (said girl) far better than i. i won't pretend that i knew her well. She never really let me. but she expressed to me that she thought that she wasn't supposed to date in high school, i never brought it up, but she either changed as school went on or she was just puttin on a face to me during the summer. i can't pretend to know the answer to that, and i no longer have any influence in her life, and by influence i don't mean power or anything of that nature, i mean i cannot inspire her to pursue Christ and His love for her or anything else that i have found to have any meaning in life, i screwed that up when this whole dating thing came up, i handled it wrong, but i was also assuming that she was the person i came to know in the summer who i saw desiring other things than dating relationships. i wish i could tell her how much i still care for her. i saw her beauty, beauty of her heart this summer, and i also saw pain. i have successfully taken myself out of any position to know her deeper and do what i can to bring healing in her life and heart. that is how i screwed up. it was never about "dating" it was about her heart. like i said in another post, i am very unlike Christ in that i'm not good at truely loving others regardless of who they are or what they are doing......this bothers me, not just bothers, it is a pain in my heart that i can't fix on my own. anyway, now you kinda see a little more of me. less of what i look like at school or wherever i put on a face to hide my immense shortcomings. and nick, i still would like to have that discussion you once talked about on here. and i do mean discussion, i have learned arguing gets no where, and seems to only would relationships, and i simply want to build them.

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Definitely not.

That's what I'm thinking... But, last Wednesday, I had a movie part at my house and said friend and the boy she is dating were there and another friend of mine got called by one of the conservative clan (that's what we'll refer to them as now), and so word got around that people were at my house, and they found out that said girl and boy were at my house. So a different member of the clan called my house and asked to talk to her. And, later on, he called again and wanted to go to the movie that we were going to (we warned him about the liberality of the movie) but he really wanted to go. We went and saw RENT, and we told him how it was filled with homosexuality, AIDS, drugs, etc. But he still came... (We asked him afterward if he liked it and he was like, "What part?" and we said, "the whole movie, in general" and he still asked, "which part?" so we know that he didn't like it.)

But, ya, constant supervision. Can't get any more liberal ideas into her mind, we just can't have that...

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do you think that anyone can tell you what god's plan is for someone else?

Definitely not. Now, people can advise you - minister, youth leader, etc. - but no one except for God can tell you what His plan is. These friends of hers must find something "un-Christian" about the boy and are simply trying to break them up because of that.

The only real way that you can know what your plan is, is to do something and have it work out or not work out. If it works out then it was in the plan, if it doesn't then it was still in the plan but it was in the plan to not work out. At least that's the way I see it.