quote:

You know Athiest can't find God the Same reason a thief can't find the police station he isn't looking for it he is running from it

Just like a Christian can't find logic, huh?

You know Athiest can't find God the Same reason a thief can't find the police station he isn't looking for it he is running from it

I think you all are missing the point altogether. You say there is no God. The next time someone says there is a God, me included. And that's not the point at all. The point is Do you believe your a good person?

quote:

Originally posted by iamastar:
Can you prove God is real? I understand the post you started the topic with, but just because something is there doesn't make it from a god or even from a higher power. It is one thing to be religious, but can you say you are a spiritual person?

quote:

Originally posted by angelwarrior:
How can you say you are spiritual? Lets say its just your body your human flesh no so called "life in you" and thats makes a good point we are all spiritual ppl think just one minute. What makes you...you is it your looks is it your hair no its your character your personalty and what is both those things and more your spirit So a dude I don't mean to scare you but your spiritual to.

I think you missed my point. Just because a person associates with a religion doesn't make them spiritual. It's like you can go to church twice a week, be in the choir, etc and still that doesn't classify you as spiritual. Or any closer to god for that matter. If he is real, he could care less about your attendence record and extra activities.

You have to reach a deeper point than just assuming that there is a higher power out there. No, I don't believe in god and I don't go to church but that doesn't mean I'm going to hell either. One of the things I do believe is that you can live your life as a good and moral person and your chances of greatness or failure in any "afterlife" are the same regardless of your belief in a higher power.

quote:

Originally posted by angelwarrior:
So lets turn that around to the only true God lets say he lived in my heart instead of the garage and healed my sorrow and my pain and took away my sin and shame and bore it on himself now that I have seen what he has done for me I know it to be true and a fact like when you turn on a tv you have faith that it will come on I know for a fact he is real........how....... he told me

If THE DARK LORD MR. HAPPY PANTS did actually exist in my garage, then there would testable, logical, and rational ways to test for him. However, as you and I both know, there isn't, just like God. However, I digress...

But THE DARK LORD MR. HAPPY PANTS healed my sorrow and pain, and took away my own sin and shame and bore it on himself. I have seen what he has done!

You know I'm lying through my teeth here, but I could believe it in my heart and have the same validity as you do.

See, that's the whole point. Your personal analogies are your own irrational, illogical, emotion filled beliefs. These aren't insults, they're statement of facts.

You have no rational reason as to why it's God other then, "I've seen it", therefore it is irrational. You have no supporting logic other then "I've seen it", therefore it is illogical. Finally, you're filling this with "I've seen it, he's filled my heart". These are your own emotions, not the rest of the world.

You're asking for logical proof and reason, asking us how we can know that God doesn't exist, and then turning around and claiming that your God must exist because of your own irrational logic.

Can you prove God is real? I understand the post you started the topic with, but just because something is there doesn't make it from a god or even from a higher power. It is one thing to be religious, but can you say you are a spiritual person?[/QUOTE]

How can you say you are spiritual? Lets say its just your body your human flesh no so called " life in you" and thats makes a good point we are all spiritual ppl think just one minute. What makes you...you is it your looks is it your hair no its your character your personalty and what is both those things and more your spirit So a dude I don't mean to scare you but your spiritual to.

Lets just say your in a plane and it is crashing what do you do you don't say well my time to go......... No you scream out to God and pray you don't scream oh God of nine earths and two moons, it is human nature to be spiritual. whether with God or without is your choice but that choice decides where you end up

Lets say you do have a garage and there is a mr happypants....whatever. And he did cure all those thing would it be irrational to believe in those things of coarse not you would not take it into consideration that he "didn't exist" that he was some God in the sky.....

So lets turn that around to the only true God lets say he lived in my heart instead of the garage and healed my sorrow and my pain and took away my sin and shame and bore it on himself now that I have seen what he has done for me I know it to be true and a fact like when you turn on a tv you have faith that it will come on I know for a fact he is real........how....... he told me

Here is the easy answer as to how you can be an atheist:

Say I have a garage. I tell you that inside of my garage, I have THE DARK LORD MR. HAPPY PANTS, who can cure cancer, cure AIDS, performs magic, is invisible, and can make gold by simply thinking about it.

Now you're thinking, THE DARK LORD MR. HAPPY PANTS, doesn't exist. He can't exist. The pure idea of THE DARK LORD MR. HAPPY PANTS existing, is the dumbest thing you ever heard.

So you make the absolute statement, "THE DARK LORD MR. HAPPY PANTS doesn't exist". There is no rational reason to believe in THE DARK LORD MR. HAPPY PANTS, so why should we give this any consideration?

Well, using your argument, all I have to say exactly what you've said. Are you a super genius? Do you have 1% of all knowledge in the universe? Do you have enough evidence to disprove the existence of THE DARK LORD MR. HAPPY PANTS?

The answer is: No, no, and no.

Just as there is no rational reason to believe in THE DARK LORD MR. HAPPY PANTS who is invisible, there is no rational reason to believe in some invisible panopticon God in the sky.

quote:

Originally posted by angelwarrior:
I am just asking How the athiest can be Athiest when they don't know that there is no God b/c they don't know everything

Can you prove God is real? I understand the post you started the topic with, but just because something is there doesn't make it from a god or even from a higher power. It is one thing to be religious, but can you say you are a spiritual person?

i dont think i could have
said it better

Apathy! The deadly opium of humanity.

I solve this problem by saying "I don't know if there's a God and I don't particularly care one way or the other."

I'm either a soft atheist or a soft agnostic, depending on whose definition you use. I don't believe in God, but I don't claim to know the status of his existence. I'm apathetic like that.

quote:

Originally posted by Capricorn_09:
No, no, no. To say "There is a god" you would have to do the exact same thing you'd have to do to say "There is no god": You'd have to search the entire universe for a god in order to come to the conclusion that there is one. Just because the world exists does not mean a god created it. There are many other theories, such as the "big bang". Creation proves that something was created, not that there was a creator.

You said theories the bible clearly states that how the world came to be, and if you don't believe the bible is acurate you should look at the prophetic sayings of how jesus would be born, were he would die how he would die and come true 800 years later just something to look at


Say there is a boy in a room, the father enters the room and says son don't touch that heater its hot, well the father leaves, and the boy gets curious and touches the heater it burns his hand and hurts, well in walk a doctor and a scientist, they are giving the boy all the reasons why the heater could not have burned him, but the boy does not care what the doctors and scientists reasons are for it not being hot he felt it and it burned and at first the boy thought it might be hot but now it is a fact it is hot. When you have experienced God no matter what logical calculations you do they are all foolish to the one who has experienced him have you experienced him? have you tried?

The Big Bang!!! That's like me going into a junk yard, setting off a bunch of c4, and a brand new Lexus appears. Creation is proof that someone created something, and that someone would have to be God. And I did start searching the universe for God. I just didn't have to go very far before I found Him.

No, no, no. To say "There is a god" you would have to do the exact same thing you'd have to do to say "There is no god": You'd have to search the entire universe for a god in order to come to the conclusion that there is one. Just because the world exists does not mean a god created it. There are many other theories, such as the "big bang". Creation proves that something was created, not that there was a creator.

My point exactly!

Let me repeat what I think AW has said, and see if I can clarify for my own sake. To say there is no god is an absolute statement, and absolute statement would be absolute truth to the one who has said "There is no god." In order for someone to make this statment they would have to have searched the entire universe for God to come to the conclusion, "There is no God." Lets turn it around for a moment. If I say there is a God, then all I would have to do is prove that He exsist. OK, sounds simple enough. Lets give it a try. If I see a painting how do I know that there is a painter? The painting itself is proof that there is a painter. We all know it just didn't fall out of the sky. What about a building? How do I know that there is a builder? Why the building is proof that there is a builder. If you take a look at creation. All the awsome things about creation. Creation itself is proof that there is a Creator. And if someone could create such a complex place as the world we live in He must be God.

I am an atheist, and I do not say "There is no god." I BELIEVE there is no god.

But by your logic, how can Christians say there is a god, if they don't know every single little thing about the universe? By your logic, religion can't exist, because nobody knows every single thing about the universe.

Atheism is a belief. So is everything every other religion says. A belief, nothing more.

quote:

I am not attacking the athiest I am just asking How the athiest can be Athiest when they don't know that there is no God b/c they don't know everything and besides athiest always are critizicing christians I just want them to prove they are really athiest and not agnostic which they are

Shade was promoting discussion. Take no offense...

On a more productive note,

quote:

Philosophers such as Antony Flew[35] and Michael Martin[24] have contrasted strong (positive) atheism with weak (negative) atheism. Strong atheism is the explicit affirmation that gods do not exist. Weak atheism includes all other forms of non-theism. According to this categorization, anyone who is not a theist is either a weak or a strong atheist.[36] The terms weak and strong are relatively recent; however, the equivalent terms negative and positive atheism have been used in the philosophical literature[35] and (in a slightly different sense) in Catholic apologetics.[37] Under this demarcation of atheism, most agnostics qualify as weak atheists.