What makes homosexuality so wrong?

Is it the disgust that people (who are against it) feel when they see homosexual activity or the fact that men cannot conceive children?

Or is it the fact that homosexuality isn’t considered the norm?

Lets ask another question, is murder wrong?

I think any intelligent human being would agree so, but what ultimate reason decides that murder is wrong?

Who are you to say or decide that killing another person is not normal, just because you strongly agree with something doesn’t necessarily make it right, how do we define normal?

I guess the obvious answer would be ‘the majority’, I agree it would make sense, but lets create another scenario, in fact lets create a parallel universe for the purpose of discussion; we live in a world where murder is considered the norm, the reason for this is because the vast majority of humans (including respected professionals) enjoy killing, it gives them a sense of joy on par with say eating chocolate (in our universe), is murder then acceptable or considered right?

I guess it would for that universe because lets face it, if you were strongly against it you would have been killed long ago.

Would I be right in saying that ‘right’ is considered right only by the majority?

Murder is wrong, but how would you define it in being wrong if there was no one else to agree with you?

So does that mean that homosexuality is wrong simply because the ‘majority’ disagrees with it, or because of the fact that men can’t get pregnant?

What if in the future somehow (again in theory for the purpose of discussion) nature finds a way for men to conceive and give birth to children, would then the average Joe consider homosexuality ok?

Deep isn’t it.

I think a lot of people dislike/hate homosexuality out of fear, fear of maybe being contaminated by their gayness, which would then turn them or the people around them a homosexual, or fear that their friends or peers will think that they themselves are a homosexual or agree with homosexual activities.

A lot of people find 2 men having sex the most horrid thing a person could wish to see or know about, but what about 2 women making love?

Is that considered ok?

Everything in universe comes down to one thing, love, the love between 2 people, why is the love between 2 consenting adults wrong?

It’s not the same as say ‘abusing a child’, now that’s what I call wrong.

I don’t blame the ignorance of people who are against homosexuality as a whole, because most of them hate it out of fear and they themselves don’t even fully understand why they hate the idea of it.

When were faced with events such as death and war the sexual relations of 2 people don’t really seem as such a big deal.

What I’m trying to say is that what we think is right or wrong doesn’t necessarily make it so, and you would be surprised to what you actually think is right or wrong at the certain point that you are in your ‘existence’.

Let me leave you with a final question for you to think about, would you actually care about homosexuality if you were told you only had 24 hours to live?

Think about it.

Ok I'm a simple idiot newbie who made amistake soo this showed up twice lol But I'm put my two cents worth in!I'm just a simple newbie putting my two cents in I'm a 19 year old assistant youth pastor and I'm gay! I have studied Homosexuality and christianity to the core it's not Wrong I know this from soo many thigsn the study i put into it and the prayer! God Is not against Homosexuality the bible has no word for it for starters You see in the old testament hebrew and the new testament Greek there is no word that properly translates into homosexual or homosexuality. Before the 19th century there were no references to homosexuality in the bible. Currious isn't it? when the bible refers to homosexuality it's not refering to the average homosexual or the homosexual christian it's refering to the pagans and male prostitutes You see the pagsn used gay sex in their rituals and the male prostitutes well they had nothing wrong really except for the fact they went around giving it away all willynilly! Soo In conclusion do not fret oh Lovely teens of the LGBTY comunity there is hope yet we just have to get those stubburn closeminded conservative christian homophobes to listen!

I'm just a simple newbie putting my two cents in I'm a 19 year old assistant youth pastor and I'm gay! I have studied Homosexuality and christianity to the core it's not Wrong I know this from soo many thigsn the study i put into it and the prayer! God Is not against Homosexuality the bible has no word for it for starters You see in the old testament hebrew and the new testament Greek there is no word that properly translates into homosexual or homosexuality. Before the 19th century there were no references to homosexuality in the bible. Currious isn't it? when the bible refers to homosexuality it's not refering to the average homosexual or the homosexual christian it's refering to the pagans and male prostitutes You see the pagsn used gay sex in their rituals and the male prostitutes well they had nothing wrong really except for the fact they went around giving it away all willynilly! Soo In conclusion do not fret oh Lovely teens of the LGBTY comunity there is hope yet we just have to get those stubburn closeminded conservative christian homophobes to listen!

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I'm not saying I believe I am a figment of my imagination but I know there are people out there who believe that of themselves; they don't even believe they exist. I know calling a fact an opinion doesn't make it so---because it already is! A fact is derived from many people saying the same opinion is true! I don't know how else to explain it.

What about history? The Holocaust happened, that's a fact. Just because some Nazi says it didn't doesn't change the fact that it did.

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Originally posted by yogore:
You are using reasoning that will get you no where. As I've said, calling a fact an opinion doesn't make it that. We exist. It's a basic fact. Human form or not, we exist. It cannot be disputed. Unless you think you are a figment of your imagination, but that can't be true. To think is to be.

I'm not saying I believe I am a figment of my imagination but I know there are people out there who believe that of themselves; they don't even believe they exist. I know calling a fact an opinion doesn't make it so---because it already is! A fact is derived from many people saying the same opinion is true! I don't know how else to explain it.

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Your opinion makes me think you are arguing for the sake of arguing, or so blind to the real world. Either or really.

I am arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm not blind to the real world and to assume that I am due to a theory I created and believe to be true is wrong on your part. Here it is, plain as day: I believe, from an outsider's point of view, that no one's opinion is right or wrong. But I will argue my opinion on any subject until doomsday if it's important to me because I believe my opinion is right---which is where this whole theory stems from!

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And answer me this please, is it not a fact that what you say is your opinion? Or is it only someone's opinion that that is your opinion? If it is, you must go a step further, wouldn't that mean that the opinion that someone thinks something you say is your opinion only an opinion of someone else?

And is it not fact that this post was posted by Yogore?

I guess I just answered this. I'm not going to say it's a fact that what I say is my opinion but I'm going to say that I believe it to be. You believe it to be. Most likely anyone reading this believes it to be. But there is probably someone out there that may say that what I'm saying isn't my opinion and therefore it's not a fact that it is. By asking the next to last question, you've "proven" my point in a way.

Facts, opinons, and all of that jazz only exist because we believe them to...if someone else didn't believe in the majority opinion (or in any other discussion I would call "fact"), then it wouldn't exist. The same goes for the minority opinion. We all create these to explain our thoughts......but that doesn't make them right or wrong.

If you want to get technical, it is not a fact that your post was posted by yogore because your actual name is not yogore. But, for the sake of your argument, to my eyes and many others (the majority), yes, it was posted by yogore. But to at least one person, it may not have been. Therefore, it's not a fact.

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Originally posted by jamaica17:

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Jamaica, the world has come into its inheritance.

No, really. It's "hat has the world come to, not come into.

Sheesh

the world is breaking into pieces... There is abortion, suicide, drugs, alcohol, rape, cussing, murder, war........ It is not about inheritance... It is about man changing his ways for the common good, not the destruction of the planet.

SHEESH.

this has been around for thousands of years, and the rape/molesting/homosexual part is still happens in the catholic churches.

Man if you could see me laughing.

Jamaica. Here is your own personal guide to Wavemaster's posts:

1:firstly, he is usually sarcastic (eg: "into" was misused in your sentance so he made fun of it.)
2:Secondly, stupid people usually are very confused by him. (are you confused?
3:He only posts seriously when it is a subject he cares deeply about (eg: gay rights, self mutilation, abortion etc.)
4:He doesn't neccesarily like people picking apart every word of his especially when they were sarcastic.
5:His favourite number is 16

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Jamaica, the world has come into its inheritance.

No, really. It's "hat has the world come to, not come into.

Sheesh

the world is breaking into pieces... There is abortion, suicide, drugs, alcohol, rape, cussing, murder, war........ It is not about inheritance... It is about man changing his ways for the common good, not the destruction of the planet.

SHEESH.

Jamaica, the world has come into its inheritance.

No, really. It's "hat has the world come to, not come into.

Sheesh

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*sigh* I am nearly getting to the point where I'd like to just concede and say that I love homosexuality and homosexual marriages, just so I don't have to argue about it on ANOTHER thread. My brain hurts.

I love homosexuals but same-sex marriage??? WHat has the world come into?

Get used to it...new people are always arriving bringing up a lot of the same topics/arguments. At least they have a new insight or way to phrase them sometimes.

*sigh* I am nearly getting to the point where I'd like to just concede and say that I love homosexuality and homosexual marriages, just so I don't have to argue about it on ANOTHER thread. My brain hurts.

I think it's just another homosexual debate thread.

hmmm..is this going to BE another Marriage thread??? I am so sick of this!!

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You can't prove anything because everything is based on opinion and even whether or not proof is true is based on opinion.

You are using reasoning that will get you no where. As I've said, calling a fact an opinion doesn't make it that. We exist. It's a basic fact. Human form or not, we exist. It cannot be disputed. Unless you think you are a figment of your imagination, but that can't be true. To think is to be.

Your opinion makes me think you are arguing for the sake of arguing, or so blind to the real world. Either or really.

And answer me this please, is it not a fact that what you say is your opinion? Or is it only someone's opinion that that is your opinion? If it is, you must go a step further, wouldn't that mean that the opinion that someone thinks something you say is your opinion only an opinion of someone else?

And is it not fact that this post was posted by Yogore?

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Originally posted by bluedemocrat:
Worth, I see your point and you are probably right in a way. You simply can't define what is right and what is wrong. However, if the world thought like you did nothing would be accomplished. People would still be racist and there would be no progress towards a civilized society whatsoever. According to your arguement, which I agree with in theroy, no one is ever right and wrong.

However, under your arguement Hitler was right in slaughtering Jewish people. The Aztecs were right in sacrificing humans to their Gods and so on.

I understand that, if everyone thought like me, nothing would get accomplished. It's a valid theory and logically correct but even my saying that contradicts it in a way (it's only in my opinion that it's a valid theory...).

You still don't seem to understand the concept though. Under my argument, it's indeterminate whether or not Hitler was right in slaughtering Jewish people. The majority say he wasn't. The Nazis say he was. It's indeterminate whether or not the Aztecs were right in sacrificing humans to their Gods. The majority think it's wrong, the Aztecs obviously thought it was right.

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How can it be proven? You cannot prove that the stories form the bible happened.

I'm not a theologist and therefore don't know how to prove it to you off the top of my head. I'll try to look up some info for you when I get the time. But then my proof will only be in others opinion and it will be in my opinion that that truth is true. If you don't have the faith to believe it's true, then it won't be. By saying, "You can't prove..." you've already "proven" my point. You can't prove anything because everything is based on opinion and even whether or not proof is true is based on opinion.

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TYhen it is not a fact that you are a person? It is only an opinion? There's no such thing as a murderer then? Only opinions that someone is? There's no such thing as an "A" as a grade? Only the opinion that you got an "A"? It makes no sense, and that is my opinion, but based on facts.

An opinion is something you cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt. The existance of the moon is a fact. There is little doubt to the contrary, you cannot call it an opinion. Calling somehting an opinion doesn't make it one.

I'm going to use one of Ultimate's stratigies and one that one of my best friends once used.

It's not necessarily a fact that I am a person. Other people (particularly those of the mentally ill variety) may see me as something entirely different, say a purple spider. They believe that to be fact, we believe that I am a person to be fact. Therefore, it's a matter of opinion.

Murderer is only a term used to define someone who intentionally kills someone else. The murderer may not see themselves as that term and therefore it is still a matter of opinion.

I could go on like this for days with any situation you gave me. It does make sense to me.

You said there is little doubt to the contrary of whether or not the moon exists. So there is still some doubt. Making the people who doubt the minority and the people who accept the majority. There are still two sides to the issue so it is still a matter of opinion and not a fact.

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Ah, but there is historical evidence (at least according to things I've watched/read before). And besides...it's simply your opinion that the belief in the Bible is simply based on faith and nothing else.

How can it be proven? You cannot prove that the stories form the bible happened.

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Ah, but those people only proved their opinion on something. And an opinion is something you can't prove to everyone, making the proof irrelevant. It is still a matter of opinion as to whether or not that proof is true.

TYhen it is not a fact that you are a person? It is only an opinion? There's no such thing as a murderer then? Only opinions that someone is? There's no such thing as an "A" as a grade? Only the opinion that you got an "A"? It makes no sense, and that is my opinion, but based on facts.

An opinion is something you cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt. The existance of the moon is a fact. There is little doubt to the contrary, you cannot call it an opinion. Calling somehting an opinion doesn't make it one.

Worth, I see your point and you are probably right in a way. You simply can't define what is right and what is wrong. However, if the world thought like you did nothing would be accomplished. People would still be racist and there would be no progress towards a civilized society whatsoever. According to your arguement, which I agree with in theroy, no one is ever right and wrong.

However, under your arguement Hitler was right in slaughtering Jewish people. The Aztecs were right in sacrificing humans to their Gods and so on.

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Originally posted by yogore:
The bible could be considered fiction. There is no historical evidence that those things actually happened. That's why it's called faith.

Ah, but there is historical evidence (at least according to things I've watched/read before). And besides...it's simply your opinion that the belief in the Bible is simply based on faith and nothing else.

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you're wrong. People have proved it, making it right. A fact is different than an opinion. A fact can be proven. It is stupid to say that there is no such thing as a fact.

Ah, but those people only proved their opinion on something. And an opinion is something you can't prove to everyone, making the proof irrelevant. It is still a matter of opinion as to whether or not that proof is true.

And it's only your opinion that it's stupid to say there's no such thing as fact...I don't think that it's stupid.

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The difference between the books about pigs and trains talking and the Bible is the fact that the first two are fiction books for kids and the latter is a holy book for Christians. You can't compare the two. And Christians do believe what they read in the Bible because that's their religion. However, I agree that they shouldn't take it all word for word.

The bible could be considered fiction. There is no historical evidence that those things actually happened. That's why it's called faith.

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The earth is round. The majority would say that is a fact. But that is still the majority's opinion and therefore it's not necessarily true.

you're wrong. People have proved it, making it right. A fact is different than