i have heard so many times about Christians who 'thrust' the word of God down others' throats. why is it so important to win? i understand the point trying to be brought across to others, but does everyone really think that's all Christians are about?

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I disagree with that belief. Essentially, it is saying that a murderer who believes in Jesus will go to Heaven and a good Samaritan who believes in the power of helping others over the power of a holy man will go to Hell. Never made much sense to me.

Not necessarily. Forgive me for not being specific. Just believing in Jesus doesn't get you into Heaven. You can't live a life all for yourself and expect God to reward you. You have to truly accept Christ into your heart and repent of your sins. Repent means to turn away from sin. That does not mean that a Christian is supposed to be absolutely perfect, as perfection does not exist in this world. But to truly repent is to acknowledge that sins are sins and not things to be enjoyed or acted on as they go against God. A murderer may be forgiven if they repent and try to live a more Christ-like life. And I understand it may seem wrong to send a "good person" to Hell just for not believing but the reason for that is this: Jesus came to earth to die, to suffer for everyone's sins so that they may be able to receive forgiveness. God doesn't have to save any of us. We are all deserving of punishment for polluting God's world with immoralities and injustice. However God was loving and willing enough to send himself in the flesh to be beaten and die horribly so that some of us may have a chance to endure Heaven. For someone to deny that they need a savior is to say that they are perfect enough to live on their own. They are better than other people. They are perfect enough to live a completely sin-less life, that they have the ability to always make the right choice without hesitation. Whether you believe in Christ as God or just another man, it does not change the fact that he was willing to DIE so that people could be saved. He suffered a great deal and rejecting Him is a selfish thing to do.

At least, according to Christians. I can't get you to see it differently if you don't want to believe it.

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It is stated in the Bible that from the moment you are conceived in your mother's womb, God will know exactly the kind of person you are going to be. If He knows that in your life you will never accept Jesus into your heart He is not going to bother with you.

Calvinistic predestination at its finest.

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People who call themselves Christian try really hard to get others to convert because they know that if someone does not completely accept Jesus that they are going to go to hell.

I disagree with that belief. Essentially, it is saying that a murderer who believes in Jesus will go to Heaven and a good Samaritan who believes in the power of helping others over the power of a holy man will go to Hell. Never made much sense to me.

I go to a historically-Christian (now only in name) college and it's amazing how many times religion can come into conversations. Some days, even when they are just stating their belief, it can get annoying as it feels as though they assume that everyone is Christian. Based on my experiences at this college, I don't know if all the Christians supposedly shoving Christianity down our throats really are as when you get too much of hearing comments for a religion that you don't agree with after a bad day, it can feel as though they are out to get you and convert you.

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i have heard so many times about Christians who 'thrust' the word of God down others' throats. why is it so important to win? i understand the point trying to be brought across to others, but does everyone really think that's all Christians are about?

People who call themselves Christian try really hard to get others to convert because they know that if someone does not completely accept Jesus that they are going to go to hell. However Christians constantly tend to forget, or in some unfortunate cases were never told, that God Himself elects people to be saved. It is stated in the Bible that from the moment you are conceived in your mother's womb, God will know exactly the kind of person you are going to be. If He knows that in your life you will never accept Jesus into your heart He is not going to bother with you. Christians need to understand that they should always be kind and accepting no matter what a person believes and does. But Christians also need to accept that if a person is unwilling to consider Christianity that they should back off because forcing it on a person is not going to change whether God has elected them or not. It is not going to change the person's mind.

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Originally posted by LiveALittle:
and apologies for the grammatical erorrs in that last post; I'm in class and definitely not supposed to be on this site. It was quite rushed in an attempt to evade the teacher's eye.

If that's as bad as your grammar gets, you don't have anything to apologize for or worry about. It's the people who typ lik tis and omg cant capitoliz or anythin that we tend to want to hurt. Or the ones who type in all caps. *shudder* Do yourself (and the rest of us) a favor, however tempted you may be, never EVER type more than about five consectutive words in caps. Not that you seem like the type to need that advice.

To reply to your actual post though, that's a very interesting idea. Although I tend to lead more towards the "but maybe they are simply made to believe they can" line of thought. On the other hand, I know people who I respect as very critical thinkers who are convinced that they can, if you will, connect with God through spirituality. *shrugs* Religion will never go away, so I've mostly given up on trying to disprove it as a whole.

and apologies for the grammatical erorrs in that last post; I'm in class and definitely not supposed to be on this site. It was quite rushed in an attempt to evade the teacher's eye.

Then again, religion could be compared to the mechanistic worldview in the vein they both use intangibles to explain whatever they need explained. They're both based on ideas or entities that one can;t see but can only believe in; the only difference is that laissez-faire worldviews are based on reason. why is that much different though? Sure we as humans can't see or prove an omniscient being; but you can't see with your eyes you need to perceivce with your mind. Maybe some people can perceive adeity through spirituality...but maybe they are simply made to believe they can.

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THANKS guys for enlightening me, i was actually satirizing the title of this board

Ah, sorry about that. It's hard to tell sometimes.

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That could all be bullshit; I'm just speculating here.

If it's bullshit then it's bullshit that makes sense, after years of arguing with people here and elsewhere these are basically the conclusions I've come to as well.

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Maybe religion is more like autoerotic asphyxiation than choking?

That line made my day Khary.

Wasn't that more satisfying than a halfhearted one-liner?

I agree that in a lot of cases people turn to religion for comfort or peace of mind rather than being forcibly converted, and I don't think there's necessarily anything inherently wrong with that, nor is it necessarily a sign of being weak-minded., though.

Religious belief can lead to inaction, yeah, which is unfortunate. That's a downside of believing in a benevolent interventionist deity, I guess. I'm not sure there's a whole lot anyone can do to convince a believer that no one can help them but themselves, though.

My understanding was that religion is more of an explanation for the (presently) unexplainable, but I really haven't read much about the subject. Seems pretty likely that elements of both are true--natural phenomena and unanswerable philosophical questions are explained away through the framework of religion, and as the religion develops it becomes an organized structure which mainly benefits the ones at the top of the hierarchy.

That could all be bullshit; I'm just speculating here.

Maybe religion is more like autoerotic asphyxiation than choking?

haha, alright then. is that a challenge? Coming from someone whose namesake is possibly the owner of THE biggest mouth in history?
In that case, I just think the naming of the thread begs conversation specific to the name. I think religion, if people really believe, can help the potentially weak-minded who are unable to comprehend the less comforting fact of being "alone" in the universe. However, I also believe it can beg false hop and inaction in certain situations where people leave it to God to save them. It takes no extensive archaeological brainwork to unearth the origins of organized religion; it kept the masses in line. Their lives were so terrible they didn't dare jeopardize their "ticket to heaven". In that sense it was a kind of chokehold i mposed on the people, and while they willingly complied to this idea of religion it was perhaps out of desperation, ignorance, or a nice little conglomeration of the two.

I do what I can

_{I'm an atheist too, but that comment was kinda weak. If you're going to sass a thread, bring your A game.}

wow. thank you. apparently this board isn't for expressing one's opinions anymore but for the bashing of other users.

satirize |ˈsatəˌrīz|

verb [ trans. ]

deride and criticize by means of satire : Aristophanes satirized the lack of respect for the laws.

satire |ˈsaˌtīr|

noun

the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues. See note at wit .
• a play, novel, film, or other work that uses satire : a stinging satire on American politics.
• a genre of literature characterized by the use of satire.
• (in Latin literature) a literary miscellany, esp. a poem ridiculing prevalent vices or follies.

_{Spoiler warning: Being deliberately obtuse in a completely humorless way isn't very good satire.}

THANKS guys for enlightening me, i was actually satirizing the title of this board which was what caught my attention, becuase I am an atheist and still think everyone is entitled to their opinions...so long as they do not try to impose them on me.

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Originally posted by LiveALittle:
"the difference between preaching and choking"???

choke: v, to use force to cut off someone's airways, i.e. with your hands, in the attempt to cause death or harm.

preach; v. to herald your views to others in the hope of getting them to think/act a certain way, i.e. priest

ummm yeah...there' a difference

LiveALittle, as Khary pointed out with his definition of metaphor, the word "choking" as it relates to this debate on religion really is not the dictionary definition of choking. As an atheist who has had people shove religion down my throat, I have never yet had someone try to physically choke me for my lack of religion. So I think what the original quote you started with

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"the difference between preaching and choking"???

was trying to get at was is there a difference between someone preaching religion to you and someone "choking" you with religion. To which I personally have to reply yes, because preaching can come in a more friendly, respectful sort of way.

you can choke some one with religion i.e. the muslim extremists are trying to wipe out all religion except theres thus choking out every one elses views on religion instead of just letting every one have there own opinions and my mom tries to choke me with religion forcimg me to go to her church (a mormom church (i dont have anything against the religion)) i like to be able to just walk into a church and be like ok i can experience there veiws on religion (what they like)

metaphor |ˈmetəˌfôr; -fər|

noun

a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable : “I had fallen through a trapdoor of depression,” said Mark, who was fond of theatrical metaphors | her poetry depends on suggestion and metaphor.

• a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, esp. something abstract : the amounts of money being lost by the company were enough to make it a metaphor for an industry that was teetering.

"the difference between preaching and choking"???

choke: v, to use force to cut off someone's airways, i.e. with your hands, in the attempt to cause death or harm.

preach; v. to herald your views to others in the hope of getting them to think/act a certain way, i.e. priest

ummm yeah...there' a difference

I don't believe you should force someone to believe the way that you believe. I believe that you should tell them about what you believe and about God.
I've heard some preachers do that, but if you are not one of His then you can try and believe, but after time passes then something might come up and you lose all Faith in God.
If you except God become a preacher plays on your emotions then you aren't going to be able to stand when the real tests comes.

It's pointless trying to criticize a faith. There's simply no base for any criticism to stand on. However, the followers of a religion are much easier targets, especially if they disobey the mandates of their religion.