Christanity and Islam etc... Have done unspeakable things... But what about before Christianity? What about the Jews? They've been around "forever"... they have been the persecuted never the pursectioners... they have not been great missionaries battering and belittling the people.. they were and still are great examples of God's enduring Promise.

I apologize to you on behalf of all Christains... I sincerely plee your forgiveness for any person who claims the name of my lord who has in anywhay persecuted, demeaned, or disrespected you or your ansestors.... Truly

However look at the Bible more than outliving, out preaching, or out fighting.. Beyond the politics of everyday life it has remains stedfast because every prophecy in it (excluding the return of Christ...which much of the signs have allready begun) Have come true.In the Old testement Eziekiel prophocies not only that God's son will come, not only the exact amount of lashing he will receive, but mind boggling deatails hundreds of yeas before they would occur. In the word of the school teacher in the Incredibles "Coicidence I think not."

Also there are wells of knowlege in Bible... It stated that the earth was round hundreds of years before the Greeks and how about this one?-Job 4:16 (the oldest known book of the Bible) God said to Job-"has thou been in the springs of the sea?" It wasn't discovered unil the early 1900's that there were even springs in the sea. but of course God would know that he put them there.
"Indescribile, unconanible, you placed the stars in the sky and you know them by name... " God knows your name and every imaginable thing about you... he loves you more than any person possilby could..

quote:

Originally posted by historybuff:
Our God is real because religions have come and gone, civilations have risen and fallen, yet through it all who remains? The Jewish people are on of the oldest cultures out there (I beleive the oldest) And the God they serve has lasted through the ages... (Mainly because he IS real! )

No, they lasted because they were the first to go around the world with missionaries and convert those who hadn't a clue as to what was going on. All these people knew is that they'd be sent to a great place when they died if they just followed the rules of some book.

Christianity and its coinciding religions are just lucky they came at a time when the people whose religion they slammed and demeaned and persecuted for had given them the ability to travel through lands only just charted and the means of conveyance to get there.

Now it's just so much a part of the mainstream culture, it would take some catastrophic event to change peoples' minds.

Might I ask than if you believe the things Jesus taught? If so, that was the biggest oxymoran I have ever heard... worse than jumbo shrimp more like mammoth atom! You just made to very true statments than blow all truth out of the water with "it doesn't mean that I think it's what everyone has to believe or anything like that." "I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the father eccept through me." (jesus- John 14:6) I like to take the Bible litterally meaning it is what you have to believe if you what salvation.

Don't be afraid to affend people sometimes honesty hurts... and that isn't always a bad thing!

To answer the original question: It's all in what you personally believe. I believe God is real. And of course the Bible is real...it's a book! Do you think it doesn't exist even though it is physically made of matter?

Okay, I'll be serious now. I believe that everything that happened in the Bible really happened though I know that a lot of it is metaphorical and that a lot of it is history and that a lot of the rules (i.e. Leviticus) were written for that historical period. So, in other words, the Bible should be read cautiously but still with the idea that it happened.

And Jesus is real, no matter what the hell you believe. He was a real guy, whether or not you believe that he was the Messiah of Christianity.

But just because the first two points are what I personally believe, that doesn't mean that I think it's what everyone has to believe or anything like that. It's more of a personal choice for everyone.

Our God is real because religions have come and gone, civilations have risen and fallen, yet through it all who remains? The Jewish people are on of the oldest cultures out there (I beleive the oldest) And the God they serve has lasted through the ages... (Mainly because he IS real! )

quote:

Originally posted by zeeta2009:
Frst of all, why is our god real but all the gods from greek and roman "mythology" aren't?? I mean who's to say that in a few thousand years people won't call "God" mythology?!

They were real -- to those ancient Greeks and Romans. I firmly believe that whatever religion you decide to follow, you will be judged by that higher power(s) and sent to whatever afterlife you believe exists. Don't believe in a religion? You lay in the ground and be a snack for some hard-working insects that penetrate your coffin. (Or maybe you just dissolve into the ocean, if you wanna be ashes.)

Besides, a lot of the stories in the Bible come directly from Roman mythology, which came from Greek mythology, just the names and context has changed. So even though the church rejects evolution, its very existence relied upon it.

Abraham is reconized as a phrophet by more than one religion- lets not deny him that.... Any one who has ever read the Bible (or at least the part about Abraham) can plainly see he was a human who made MANY mistakes....

quote:

Abraham was not an immoral man, he was a prophet,

AMF8 why is it that you speak as though you know what the Bible says. Abraham was in no way a prophet and where do you get that Abraham was God's #1 servant?

quote:

...Not really. I'll just turn on the Food Network.

That's pretty funny. Way to be apathetic, zzyzx.

Historybuff: When I run out of answers, I simply look for more. I guide myself using logic to find the answers to any questions I have. There is no divine being guiding my hand. I do it myself.

Abraham was not an immoral man, he was a prophet, and he did what he was being asked to do, and doggedly followed Gods orders. He never disobeyed God. You cant call him immoral by our standards now, because he didnt live now. Abraham was actually God's #1 servant in the bible. His faith was the one that God wanted at the time, there was no other Faith, Christianity did not exist. Abraham probably followed God more closely then than you are now.


zeeta you may be correct about the mythology, although few will hear it

that's shallow

...Not really. I'll just turn on the Food Network.

Perhaps you don't want to know the truth... And if one day run run out of answers, you will see that there is more to life than you and you are not in control... does that scare you?

Can you do that? Just stop caring? How does that work? If I want something and I want it now I won't stop until I have it or understand why I cannot.... How can you push away the stirrings of your soul so flipently?

If I run out of answers I stop caring.

Oh no, The old testment is very valuable. Is difficult to understand (for me that is) It shows us that in all we do or are, there is still hope. Abraham for example was a very immoral man, yet God called him righteous. Not because of the things this man did but because of the faith he had and because he wanted to be more than his mistakes.... None of us are perfict or ever will be. That is why I need him more than anything.

Confucious? a very wise man and a great role model I might add. He lived hundreds of years before Jesus (in the physical scence) and many of his teachings are wise. But he wasn't right in a lot of areas either. Sorry to highlight you signature quote it just stuck out to me like writting on a wall.

And do not worry I am not infuriated at all... It was wonderful talking to you. later...

P.s. "Clpo 13" you may be able to find peace without a book... But what do you do when you run out of answers? No mortal has all the answers unless they have something bigger guiding them. Who guides you?

Oh no, The old testment is very valuable. Is difficult to understand (for me that is) It shows us that in all we do or are, there is still hope. Abraham for example was a very immoral man, yet God called him righteous. Not because of the things this man did but because of the faith he had and because he wanted to be more than his mistakes.... None of us are perfict or ever will be. That is why I need him more than anything.

Confucious? a very wise man and a great role model I might add. He lived hundreds of years before Jesus (in the physical scence) and many of his teachings are wise. But he wasn't right in a lot of areas either. Sorry to highlight you signature quote it just stuck out to me like writting on a wall.

And do not worry I am not infuriated at all... It was wonderful talking to you. later...

P.s. "Clpo 13"

So historybuff, would you say that the Old Testament is only included in modern Bibles because it is part of the original, not because it has any decent teachings?

But then you see, it has the ten commandments. So either you discount some of the Bible, which is technically heresy, or you take all of it and are not only politically incorrect but are racist gender prejudiced and in favour of slavery. Tough pick, eh?

My final quote is my signature, it always says that. I did not mean it to pertain to my previous post. Having said that, why is Jesus comparible to a quote of Confucious's? And I do not mock your values, nor do I activly try to infuriate you. I just find Christianity a difficult mentality to get to grips with. I am a Druid, I don't have the problem of a demi God dying for me. It makes life so much more peaceful.

Historybuff, I can find peace without turning to a book.

"Brehon"

I know what you mean about the old testement... It is a very hard thing to read and understand. I struggle sometimes with the things it says, but those were differant times. Justice was differant. It was before the coming of Jesus so things were very differant. But nowhere in the Bible that I know of does it support torchuring people until they admit gilt and then killing them... If can find such an example I would be interested in reading.