Would you laugh even if they proved, without a doubt, that it happened? Sure, I'd laugh off any declaration that it happened...unless I was shown rock-hard evidence that it was true. See, what this all boils down to is that there is evidence that some, but not all, events in the Bible did no happen. But there are also some events that have proof backing them up.

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If someone proved to me that the universe was snorted out of the left nostril of a gigantic donkey, I'd give up the antiquated thought that it was created by the Big Bang and happily go about my life secure in the knowledge that has been shown (and proven) to me.

I'm sorry, but if someone told me that the universe was snorted out from a gigantic donkey's nostril, I've laugh hysterically and tell them they were crazy. Maybe I am close-minded, but when it comes to my beliefs, thats just who I am...and I guess people have to deal with that.

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But I could care less what a human being says whats wrong with the Bible...

Even if he gives you proof? See, this is where the closed-mindedness comes in. An open-minded person is willing to forsake their earlier beliefs when proven wrong, as opposed to holding on to the incorrect beliefs.

If someone proved to me that the universe was snorted out of the left nostril of a gigantic donkey, I'd give up the antiquated thought that it was created by the Big Bang and happily go about my life secure in the knowledge that has been shown (and proven) to me.

okay when I said that I believed things the Bible happened, that doesnt mean that theyre always right. Just because you know that it happened doesnt say that you think its okay (i.e. slavery, stoning, etc.).

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Science proves parts of the bible to be false.

yogore, I dont care about what science says about the fictional parts of the Bible. This has been discussed on another board, so I'm not going to go into it. But I could care less what a human being says whats wrong with the Bible...

I brought up the monkey/ape business because I wanted to clear up a major misunderstanding that many anti-evolutionists have.

And that it is okay to have slaves

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Then I imagine you also believe certain people should be stoned and that inces is OK in some cases.

Lol. But you forgot that slavery is okay.

ILB, I was curious if you believed that organisms can adapt and change. I know that before Darwin many people believed in "fixity of species" or that organisms could not change.

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And when I said that "you cant say parts of the Bible are fictional", I meant that either you believe all of it or not of it. You cant straddle the line when it comes to something like that...

Then I imagine you also believe certain people should be stoned and that inces is OK in some cases.

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And when I said that "you cant say parts of the Bible are fictional", I meant that either you believe all of it or not of it. You cant straddle the line when it comes to something like that...

You don't believe the things in leviticus, do you? Therefore, you don't believe all of it either. No one believes everything in the bible. You can "straddle the line" this isn't a black or white situation. There's grey area.

Science proves parts of the bible to be false. According to it's timeline, the earth is no older than something like 5000 years. We all knwo it is much older because of dinosours and all the prehistoric evidence.

okay, I wont say "monkeys" anymore...it sounds to me that you just want to show your knowledge (which I commend you for knowing) on monkeys and apes, but whatever - thats not the point of the board.
And when I said that "you cant say parts of the Bible are fictional", I meant that either you believe all of it or not of it. You cant straddle the line when it comes to something like that...

It's not just a term, bush. There is a major difference between apes and monkeys. Imagine trying to tell someone that dolphins are fish. You'd get laughed at. Dolphins are mammals. Yes, they have tails and swim in the water, but that doesn't make them fish. Similarly, both apes and monkeys have hair and a predisposition towards bananas, but apes are normally ground-dwelling and tail-less, while monkeys live in trees a majority of the time and have prehensile tails.

The two words are not interchangeable and I'd thank you not to use them as such.

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And you cant just say that parts of the Bible are fictional...

We don't even know that any of the Bible is true. There is physical evidence that there were creatures on this earth before man, thus I am more inclined to agree with Crazy on this point.

On a similar point, people often wonder why the Bible never mentions dinosaurs. The answer: it is a religious text, not a history or biology book. This does not mean I whole-heartedly agree with or believe in the authenticity of the Bible, merely I wanted to clear a few things up.

okay I'm finally replying to y'all...

clpo - I said we didnt come from monkeys just as an example - not as something that needed to be explained to me...I know the whole story about how some scientists think we came from apes (and excuse me for not using the correct term).

blue- we were talking about how old the earth is/the 7 days in church just a couple weeks ago. I honestly dont know how old the earth really is...I do believe that God created the earth (as well as the universe) in 7 days, but I can see how people believe that God's seven days were longer...
and what do you mean exactly by your last question? I dont really understand what you mean...

and crazychild, you make absoutely no sense. Obviously you believe in the Bible (or at least some parts, which doesnt make sense), but Adam and Eve werent the fist creatures to walk the Earth? If you dont mean animals (which yes, God created animals first), then God tells us in Genesis 2 that he created Adam and the Eve. And you cant just say that parts of the Bible are fictional...

I don't think that God actually created the earth in seven days, but I believe he did create it. The question is when? We may never know but what we do know is that after the earth was formed, Adam and Eve were definitely not the first creatures to walk the earth. All you gotta do is take a look at dinosaur fossils. They may or may not be as old as scientists say they are, but obviously they must've have come way before humans because obviously, don't ya'll think that the entire race would've been devoured the viscious, carnivorous, giant reptiles? That part of the Bible, my friends, is totally fictional.

Ilovebush, I don't want to attack/mock your beliefs, but I have a few questions for you. Please don't take them the wrong way.

1. How old do you believe the earth is?
2. Do you believe that god created the earth in 7 days?
3. Do believe that organsisms do not evolve and any adaptations are a work of god?

If you don't mind, I'm going to correct you, ilovebush. First off, humans did not come from monkeys. Apes, perhaps, but not monkeys. There is a difference. Second, humans did not directly evolve from apes. A long, long time ago (hundreds of thousands of years ago), there was a common ancestor, most likely a land-dwelling ape-like creature. Over time, this species split into what would become humans and what would become the great apes. So, there is no "humans came down from the trees" or "humans are really monkeys". That is the mindless gibbering of anti-evolutionists.

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Thus I accept that there most likely is a supreme energy being of some sort that formed the Universe and allowed everything within it to be created, but I don't go around saying that we'll all be going to hell in a handbasket unless we worship this being.

The big thing here is that you should never, ever ignore scientific findings because they interfere with your religious beliefs. Science has the added advantage of having evidence, whereas the exact birthdate of Jesus is still in question.

When bauhaus called you closed-minded, ilovebush, he was referring to the fact that you won't accept anything that says the opposite of your views. Yes, you may very well go ahead and believe that God created the Universe and everything in it, but when the evidence stacks up against you, it is closed-minded to ignore it.

Indeed, we are all entitled to our own opinion, but when facts prove us wrong, it is always wise to release the false opinions and go about your way happily. Or even better, keep your opinions yet see both sides of the issue without bias. Is that so hard?

Okay, when I said that I didnt need a scientist to tell me that we came from monkeys, I didnt say that I won't listen to what other people's beliefs are. I mean that if someone says that my opinions are wrong (especially if they are about my religious beliefs), I'm not going to change my views and believe what they say. Yes, science does help us (like finding where they believe John the Baptist baptized people), but science isnt always right. Scientists use their knowledge and findings to come up with logical reasons for certain things. Scientists are human beings, just like you and me, and they arent always right. So I cant say that I am going to believe everything scientists say, especially if it goes totally against what I believe is right. And when did I ever say that others were going to hell if they dont worship God? I dont ever recall saying that, and I dont judge people on their religious beliefs...

its a belief system end of story

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that universes collided to form our universe (thats wrong but whatever)

Please don't ever say that again. You cannot possibly know if it's wrong or not. How was the Universe created? Go ahead. Tell me. And prove it. You can't, right? I thought so. Nobody can prove or disprove anything about the creation of the Universe and all it's contents. Why? Because nobody was there. Similarly, you cannot prove nor disprove the presence of an almighty being of some sort, which is why I am an agnostic. To be an agnostic is to acknowledge the fact that you cannot know if there is or if there isn't a God. This is not to say that you don't believe there is one, merely it conveys that you understand that you cannot prove it one way or the other.

So, there is sufficient evidence to say that the cosmic membrane theory is true. There is also sufficient evidence to say that the Universe is expanding, which means everything--life, stars, black holes--will cease to exist at one point in time, a point that is thankfully very, very far away.

However, many Christians who hold the same beliefs as you do, ilovebush, say that God could never let his Creation disappear. However, where is the rock solid evidence for God? There is none, and that's the problem.

Thus I accept that there most likely is a supreme energy being of some sort that formed the Universe and allowed everything within it to be created, but I don't go around saying that we'll all be going to hell in a handbasket unless we worship this being.

The big thing here is that you should never, ever ignore scientific findings because they interfere with your religious beliefs. Science has the added advantage of having evidence, whereas the exact birthdate of Jesus is still in question.

When bauhaus called you closed-minded, ilovebush, he was referring to the fact that you won't accept anything that says the opposite of your views. Yes, you may very well go ahead and believe that God created the Universe and everything in it, but when the evidence stacks up against you, it is closed-minded to ignore it.

Indeed, we are all entitled to our own opinion, but when facts prove us wrong, it is always wise to release the false opinions and go about your way happily. Or even better, keep your opinions yet see both sides of the issue without bias. Is that so hard?

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Originally posted by zeeta2009:
Hey I'm athiest and im looking 4 a debate on religion...but a friendly debate b/c i dont hav a problem w/religious ppl i jst wnt 2 see if i can get a few straight answers....

so here's my 1st question:

Frst of all, why is our god real but the gods from greek and roman "mythology" aren't?? I mean who's to say that in a few thousand years people won't call "God" mythology?!

A

A similiar question might be this....Why is the idea that the grass is green true but those who those who hold the idea that grass is purple are wrong? It has everything to do with what is really true....and nothing to do with what we SAY is true... or false for that matter. If there were no people in existance to believe anything at all....truth would still be truth.

Many Christians accept the theory of evolution and the big bang theory. Are they not true Christians?

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but I believe that God created all, whether scientists find evidence that says differently.


and this is what makes you so close minded.

umm no, this is what makes me a Christian. Heaven forbid that I'm strong in my beliefs, and I dont need some man called a scientist to tell me that universes collided to form our universe (thats wrong but whatever) or that we came from monkeys. As a Christian, I think that God created all, and he tells me that in the Bible. Just because I know what I believe, like you know what you believe, doesnt make me a close-minded person.