quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:

quote:

Hypocrites fight over God's name. The Crusades were a mistake. I'll fight for God, but not over His existence. That's silly. Discussion is so much more effective.

People fight because they feel their interpretation is the right one. But why doesn't God step in and put a stop to it instead of letting wars over his words (well, alleged words, to be fair) ruin lives? It's not a matter of whether these people are hypocritical; it's a matter of why God lets it happen, especially if he's as involved as you say.

Heh, if I were to believe in any god(s), it would be the gods of the Greeks and Romans. They seem perfectly suited for the kind of messes this world gets into. The Greco-Roman gods were very human, and they'd have no qualms about pitting believers against other believers just for kicks.

That's party why I don't like the Greco-Roman gods. They're too human, too spiteful. A perfect god gives me something to strive for.

As per the first paragraph:
God lets it all go wrong because He's preparing us for something better. Like a silversmith leaves the impure metal in the fire until he can see his reflection in the end product, so does God with His children, lost and found.

He's definitely involved. Just look at all these ministries in third-world countries. I mean, it's hard to see it in countries like the US or Britain or Canada, but it's all in the perspective. I see Him plain as day through nsung heroes I pass by on the street (ok, drive by). Others might jsut see them as pityfolk. X(

so yeah.

quote:

Hypocrites fight over God's name. The Crusades were a mistake. I'll fight for God, but not over His existence. That's silly. Discussion is so much more effective.

People fight because they feel their interpretation is the right one. But why doesn't God step in and put a stop to it instead of letting wars over his words (well, alleged words, to be fair) ruin lives? It's not a matter of whether these people are hypocritical; it's a matter of why God lets it happen, especially if he's as involved as you say.

Heh, if I were to believe in any god(s), it would be the gods of the Greeks and Romans. They seem perfectly suited for the kind of messes this world gets into. The Greco-Roman gods were very human, and they'd have no qualms about pitting believers against other believers just for kicks.

quote:

Originally posted by LoveTheRainbow:

quote:

Wow... you're the first person on YN that new what UFC was... <--- me happy

Lies. I knew what it was!-

You did?

every body seems to be blaming God, when it is Satan's fault. I think Satan is doing hell of a very good job - well that is his job anyway, to make people feel that the world is God's Octagon. but the world is Satan's Octagon not God.

quote:

Originally posted by Maya:
sorry for the double post but....

quote:

Lying is as bad as murder. Rape is as trivial as cheating on a test. Mutilation and racism are equal to "I want that necklace of hers SO BAD".

are you saying this literally? I'm sorry but cheating on a test...lying...jealousy? how can you even compare with the others?! I'm totally not getting the point I think :S

and if in God's eyes they're the same is what you're saying...well...that's just fucked up...there's a difference between lying and ACTUALLY HARMING other people...

see Triss

quote:

Actually, I just said that 'cause I thought it sounded cool. I'm sure I'm leaning on some things (science, logic, reason all come to mind), but I meant it that way because I create my own belief system based on what I see and what seems logical to me. To me, a God like the one described in the New Testament (caring, compassionate, etc.) doesn't gel with what I see in the world, where so much senseless violence and meaningless death occurs. It just doesn't make sense, especially since the majority of the violence is caused by people arguing over God! I mean, come on. It would seem to the outside observer that the world is God's UFC. He's just sitting up there on his couch, eating Doritos, rooting for whoever's on top.

Okay, so maybe not, but that's the way it feels sometimes. I'm still undecided on the existence of God. I don't see him in the details like some do, but I'm not ready to completely dismiss him if I don't have the evidence necessary to do so.

It did sound cool. It sounded deep, is why i asked. My beliefs are based on what I've seen and felt in life. I can tell you that even though God is caring and compassionate, He is also just. The Old Testament says that, as does the book of Revelation. I love to read those riddle-ridden pages. No one seems to be able to understand them but me. :/

Hypocrites fight over God's name. The Crusades were a mistake. I'll fight for God, but not over His existence. That's silly. Discussion is so much more effective.

Uhm, the god you jsut described would be a deity, not God. The God of Christianity, as well as Judeism, is an involved God. Hey if God eats Doritos, I'll faint. I wonder, would that be why Doritos are so expensive? Because they're effectively ambrosia? XP 10 points to whoever knows that one!

quote:

Wow... you're the first person on YN that new what UFC was... <--- me happy

Lies. I knew what it was!-

quote:

. It would seem to the outside observer that the world is God's UFC.

Wow... you're the first person on YN that new what UFC was... <--- me happy

quote:

What do you stand alone in? You'd be surprised how many would claim that and yet they are leanign on something.

Actually, I just said that 'cause I thought it sounded cool. I'm sure I'm leaning on some things (science, logic, reason all come to mind), but I meant it that way because I create my own belief system based on what I see and what seems logical to me. To me, a God like the one described in the New Testament (caring, compassionate, etc.) doesn't gel with what I see in the world, where so much senseless violence and meaningless death occurs. It just doesn't make sense, especially since the majority of the violence is caused by people arguing over God! I mean, come on. It would seem to the outside observer that the world is God's UFC. He's just sitting up there on his couch, eating Doritos, rooting for whoever's on top.

Okay, so maybe not, but that's the way it feels sometimes. I'm still undecided on the existence of God. I don't see him in the details like some do, but I'm not ready to completely dismiss him if I don't have the evidence necessary to do so.

Maya what I think she meant was that she believes that God judges all sins equally, no matter how big or how small and its only us humans, because we see the obvious concenquences to actions that are known as "sins", we make the conclution that sins that are more harmful to society are worst. Where as God doesn't care, a sin is a sin.

sorry for the double post but....

quote:

Lying is as bad as murder. Rape is as trivial as cheating on a test. Mutilation and racism are equal to "I want that necklace of hers SO BAD".

are you saying this literally? I'm sorry but cheating on a test...lying...jealousy? how can you even compare with the others?! I'm totally not getting the point I think :S

and if in God's eyes they're the same is what you're saying...well...that's just fucked up...there's a difference between lying and ACTUALLY HARMING other people...

quote:

Originally posted by 272froggy:
hey, maya, if i were to agree with what you said, i should just kill you! see the error of your debate! oh, come on! sure let's kill everyone even though it is morraly wrong! me genoito!(greek for no) also God is a Just ?God that is why there is a hell, i hope you realize that christ is the only way to heaven, not by good works.

woah... seriously you should re-read my post, because you obviously didn't get anything

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:
You know what you're talking about, and I thank you for that. But I'm not that easy to convince. I've got a couple years worth of rather damning evidence to pit against religion, plus personal experience, having only recently left Christianity. Even so, I do my research, so I look forward to matching wits with you.

Oh, yeah, forgot, you seem to know a lot about religion as well. I'm impressed and reminded of my friend in Britain.

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:

quote:

If you coutn the Bible as a historical document, since it is accurate, there's one.
more evidence: Go read a book called "A Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. He's a former Atheist led to Christ by (Get this) SCIENCE. Evolution has been disproven for a century. There's no way we live today by chance. I advocate this book gladly. It's awesome! I learned a lot by reading it, and I think you would too, if you'd read it.

The Bible may be more or less historically accurate, but that doesn't not qualify it as evidence that God exists or that Christianity is the right religion. It offers no proof of either of those.

Also, I have read some of Lee Strobel's books. They're not really that convincing. I have a hard time believing he was much of an atheist in the first place, considering some of the things that "convinced" him to become Christian.

quote:

My knowledge of what life is. We as humans are stupid, filthy, mean-spirited individuals. We have ugly thoughts and we jsut can't stand some people, and so treat them differently. I'll admit, I'm guilty. I lash back at those who annoy me. We try to meet the standards of mankind, but the standards of earth are always changing and are getting harder to fulfill.

I don't see how this is evidence. You're stating the rather obvious. That's no reason to believe in God, or whatever you're trying to prove.

quote:

Are you in the fray, or among the standing?

My answer? I stand alone.

You know what you're talking about, and I thank you for that. But I'm not that easy to convince. I've got a couple years worth of rather damning evidence to pit against religion, plus personal experience, having only recently left Christianity. Even so, I do my research, so I look forward to matching wits with you.

(thanks, Trisscar)

eheheh, erm, I was having a hard time concentrating bc I was at work when I posted that, so I'm sorry if it didn't make much sense.

Well, you'd probably have a hard time believing I was once agnostic, but I was. I'm why-oriented. I like science. My issues with it are merely I can't keep my mouth shut.

I see God in the obvious. It's hard to explain to a strong mind off the top of my head, but basically, with my personal issues (see chd abuse stuff) behind me, I've learned to view things a little differently than the average person. That's partly why I can say things and not care about the resulting reactions.

What do you stand alone in? You'd be surprised how many would claim that and yet they are leanign on something.

quote:

If you coutn the Bible as a historical document, since it is accurate, there's one.
more evidence: Go read a book called "A Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. He's a former Atheist led to Christ by (Get this) SCIENCE. Evolution has been disproven for a century. There's no way we live today by chance. I advocate this book gladly. It's awesome! I learned a lot by reading it, and I think you would too, if you'd read it.

The Bible may be more or less historically accurate, but that doesn't not qualify it as evidence that God exists or that Christianity is the right religion. It offers no proof of either of those.

Also, I have read some of Lee Strobel's books. They're not really that convincing. I have a hard time believing he was much of an atheist in the first place, considering some of the things that "convinced" him to become Christian.

quote:

My knowledge of what life is. We as humans are stupid, filthy, mean-spirited individuals. We have ugly thoughts and we jsut can't stand some people, and so treat them differently. I'll admit, I'm guilty. I lash back at those who annoy me. We try to meet the standards of mankind, but the standards of earth are always changing and are getting harder to fulfill.

I don't see how this is evidence. You're stating the rather obvious. That's no reason to believe in God, or whatever you're trying to prove.

quote:

Are you in the fray, or among the standing?

My answer? I stand alone.

You know what you're talking about, and I thank you for that. But I'm not that easy to convince. I've got a couple years worth of rather damning evidence to pit against religion, plus personal experience, having only recently left Christianity. Even so, I do my research, so I look forward to matching wits with you.

DKR - I may not totallly agree with you, but I'm extremely impressed with your last post. Good work, you really know your stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:

quote:

i hope you realize that christ is the only way to heaven, not by good works.

I hope you realize you can't back up that statement with anything.

I CAN!
Even if we are perfect by human standards, the fact is, we sin. You sin. You lie, you don't respect your parents (admit it, all teens are guilty of that), and thanks to hormones, you have lustful desires whether you admit that one or not. These "small" sins are jsut as bad as murder, in God's eyes, so we fall short. It doesn't matter what we do on earth.

Christ flat up said that He is the Way the Truth and the Life. There is only one way to heaven. That's Christ. I'll say it in a million more ways if you want, but the fac tis, I'm saying the same thing: JESUS IS THE WAY, NOT WORKS!

Evidence: If you coutn the Bible as a historical document, since it is accurate, there's one.
more evidence: Go read a book called "A Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. He's a former Atheist led to Christ by (Get this) SCIENCE. Evolution has been disproven for a century. There's no way we live today by chance. I advocate this book gladly. It's awesome! I learned a lot by reading it, and I think you would too, if you'd read it.

More evidence: My knowledge of what life is. We as humans are stupid, filthy, mean-spirited individuals. We have ugly thoughts and we jsut can't stand some people, and so treat them differently. I'll admit, I'm guilty. I lash back at those who annoy me. We try to meet the standards of mankind, but the standards of earth are always changing and are getting harder to fulfill. God expects two things from us:

1. Trust Jesus and so trust God.
2. Try to be like our heavenly father, not the people in the world.

Galatians 1:10 reads, "Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ." (NIV)

This says that if we're too caught up in meeting standards of today, then we're failing to show God how we love Him, and that's one of the two biggest commandments (Love God with all your heart; love your neighbor as yourself)! If we dn't follow the commandments, we ain't goin nowhere but south. Yes, grammar was deliberately rejected.

If we trust God but don't try to be liek Him, that's kind of redundant. If you love your mom or dad as a littel kid, don't you want nothing mroe than to be like them? Of course you do! That's a natural response! If we don't love God and show it, then we're SINNING and sin sends us straight to Tophet (another name for it)!

This is a very simple concept to me. Feel free to ask or attack on anything I say. I live to spread God's word. That's what DXRs do with their lives. Sometimes literally.

Oh yeah, by the way, if I seem younger or older than I am, sorry. I've had a lot of time on my hands lately to soak in information.

One more bit to back up what froggy said:
If I am nice to everyone on earth, if I am perfect, if I am the epitome of flawlessness, and yet in my darkest deepest soul, I have desires to beat my child, (but don't) and imagine scenarios where I do, does it condemn me to Tophet? Note, this is my ONLY err in life.

Would one tiny flaw such as this condemn me, or would you accept me? If I murdered someone in cold blood but no one ever knew, and when the time came for judgement day, you knew what I had done, would you accept me?

God would, if I asked for forgiveness and honestly desired my sin to be absolved.

Lying is as bad as murder. Rape is as trivial as cheating on a test. Mutilation and racism are equal to "I want that necklace of hers SO BAD". Child abuse=fighting with siblings.

I'm a victim and I think this. Good works can never outweigh the bad. You aren't perfect, so you'll take if someonen lies, but you'll reject a murderer or a racist, or a frickin pedophile.

The same people I'd die for at a moment's notice are the people who deserve it the least.

Works are useless unless coupled first and foremost by Jesus' blood.

Now tha tI have given you much to read, I leave with this:

Are you in the fray, or among the standing?

quote:

i hope you realize that christ is the only way to heaven, not by good works.

I hope you realize you can't back up that statement with anything.

hey, maya, if i were to agree with what you said, i should just kill you! see the error of your debate! oh, come on! sure let's kill everyone even though it is morraly wrong! me genoito!(greek for no) also God is a Just ?God that is why there is a hell, i hope you realize that christ is the only way to heaven, not by good works.

quote:

Originally posted by speed:
http://www.400monkeys.com/God/

there's your answer

Thanks for taking that from me?